Cain is the first vampire, the primogenitor of the entire race.
He is possibly the most powerful being in the setting save God himself. Anyone who tries to harm him has the attack reflected back upon them (Only IIRC seven times more powerful).
The mentioned Antediluvians are planetary in scale of their power, and Cain could probably solo them.
Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't think he does, no.Caine mostly gets by on powerscaling to be honest, because he is two generations above even the Antediluvians.
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He's not meant to be fought in any realistic sense. As it is for player characters, Methuselahs are too powerful except with plot devices aiding them; Antediluvians are gods, and 2nd generation is (seemingly) all wiped out (Wraith implies this is not the case).
You'd have to be God or Lillith to threaten Caine, and even then I'm not so sure about Lillith.
I think in Fair is Foul she does some kind of contrived plot to undo him, per her revenge, but I don't recall how it ends as a module. None of the canon novel stuff depicts her death, just player Gehenna modules.
It's true that she taught him the Disciplines, but once he mastered them he seemed relatively immune to her scorn and hate. My belief is he's superior in a straight up fight/test of power.
Originally posted by NemeBro
He would have the highest level possible of every Discipline.Super speed, strength, telepathy, super invisibility, time manipulation, lots of cool shit.
Hey Nemebro not sure you got my comment on alucard Vs Caine thread
I ask what would you rank Caine in Powers in Marval and Dc?
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I think in Fair is Foul she does some kind of contrived plot to undo him, per her revenge, but I don't recall how it ends as a module. None of the canon novel stuff depicts her death, just player Gehenna modules.It's true that she taught him the Disciplines, but once he mastered them he seemed relatively immune to her scorn and hate. My belief is he's superior in a straight up fight/test of power.
Didn't she get squashed by God when she tried to kill Caine?
Either way, lets put it like this Emptyheart. The 9th level of many of the disciplins are basically plot devices, and one of them allow you to create a pocket dimension. Caine is above those vampires capable of doing that by a significant margin.
I would say that the only ones that could kill him is the archangels and God.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Didn't she get squashed by God when she tried to kill Caine?Either way, lets put it like this Emptyheart. The 9th level of many of the disciplins are basically plot devices, and one of them allow you to create a pocket dimension. Caine is above those vampires capable of doing that by a significant margin.
I would say that the only ones that could kill him is the archangels and God.
It's been some time, I'm foggy on it. My supplements extend to Clanbook Giovanni, Clanbook Ventrue, Book of Nod, Dark Ages Vampire and VTM sourcebook; not much else anymore.
The archangels were powerful, but it's nebulous just how powerful in comparison. Demon: The Fallen materials might shed more light.
Originally posted by danteiscool
wow, so this guy could potentially be on par with guys like Odin and Zeus and stuff from Marvel comics?
Possibly. I'd have to really revisit their powers and speculate heavily.
Things like astral projection, mass illusions, mass possession, Abyss primordial darkness manifestation, etc. all make him pretty much a chimera of combat. You basically have to look at every single discipline in VtM and realize he can do it better than what is listed by a considerable margin. Level 10 Chimerstry lets you trap someone in an alternate dimension. Level 9 allows you to make your mass illusions real.
Then you realize he probably has mastered Temporis.... Well, that's just cheating.
Originally posted by Utrigita
That is a big potentially, since I doubt he can ever be close to galaxy level, but High Herald to Trans is a a given imo.
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Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It's been some time, I'm foggy on it. My supplements extend to Clanbook Giovanni, Clanbook Ventrue, Book of Nod, Dark Ages Vampire and VTM sourcebook; not much else anymore.The archangels were powerful, but it's nebulous just how powerful in comparison. Demon: The Fallen materials might shed more light.
Seem to recall something along those lines, but like you it's been a while since I read about the vampires.
I think they are above him, simply because their curses still apply (to some extent) to all his children. Even the Ravnos Antediluvian Zapathasura was vulnerable to sunlight, and it toke like everything that could be mustered to put him down and he wasn't even thinking straight.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Possibly. I'd have to really revisit their powers and speculate heavily.Things like astral projection, mass illusions, mass possession, Abyss primordial darkness manifestation, etc. all make him pretty much a chimera of combat. You basically have to look at every single discipline in VtM and realize he can do it better than what is listed by a considerable margin. Level 10 Chimerstry lets you trap someone in an alternate dimension. Level 9 allows you to make your mass illusions real.
Then you realize he probably has mastered Temporis.... Well, that's just cheating.
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Could add Presence, project dreams and nightmare to the entire world. And I can't quite recall Obfuscate is that remove a person from reality or remove yourself from reality?
Either way I guess you can think of something, anything Emptyheart and Caine can most likely do it. As Nemebro said the guy is basically nigh Omnipotent.