Originally posted by NemeBro
He loves his mother though.Gregor loves nothing.
Does he?
Because
Spoiler:
he's got brain-damage. He's impaired mentally in some form, which is probably why he's like he is. Ramsay has no reason, he's just a complete psychopath. And either way Ramsay's atrocities are way worse than Gregors. Gregor just kills and rapes people. Ramsay takes it a step further by skinning or torturing his victims before he rapes and kills them. Well, before he kills them. God I hope he doesn't skin them before he rapes them. 😘 Plus what he did to Theon is a much more prolonged, pronounced form of evil than Gregor is capable of.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Does he?Because
Spoiler:
he's got brain-damage. He's impaired mentally in some form, which is probably why he's like he is. Ramsay has no reason, he's just a complete psychopath. And either way Ramsay's atrocities are way worse than Gregors. Gregor just kills and rapes people. Ramsay takes it a step further by skinning or torturing his victims before he rapes and kills them. Well, before he kills them. God I hope he doesn't skin them before he rapes them. 😘 Plus what he did to Theon is a much more prolonged, pronounced form of evil than Gregor is capable of.
Yes he does, he actually thinks that Roose's romance with his mother was some beautiful epic tale of a love that transcended class and social status.
Spoiler:
In reality, Roose just sort of raped her, lol.If you think Ramsay doesn't have brain damage you're a pretty strange guy. People afflicted with Antisocial Personality Disorder whose brains have been examined have shown decay in the area that processes IIRC empathy or some other related shit.
Also, it is directly indicated that Ramsay's start of darkness began when he was goaded by his mother and possibly Reek into not being satisfied with a peasant's life. In reality, it is Gregor who has no reason save his nature for being the way he is. He was the glint in his father's eye, the heir to a knightly house, yet it is still indicated that he's been a monster since before he was even a teenager, back when he was "only" six feet tall.
Gregor tortures the shit out of people. He cut off pieces of Vargo Hoat's body (Vargo who had gone mad due to an infected wound) over a long period of time and fed them both to Vargo and to his prisoners in Harrenhal. He kept Vargo alive for as long as possible because he found his lisp amusing. He planned to feed Vargo his cock last, IIRC, but Hoat died before he could. You don't really remember this because Hoat was himself a very horrible individual, but Gregor is still capable of that same maliciousness and cruelty.
He indeed wouldn't create a Reek-fu for himself, but that really just adds a twisted form of humanity to Ramsay. He cared enough about Reek to create a new one in Theon, he needs Reek, it isn't just about his personal amusement. Gregor wants for and needs nothing.
It isn't a contest. He was a psychopath. A monster.
I think they both hide behind the same mask of cold logic and practicality but it hides different characteristics for each. Tywin is more machiavellian but he uses the mask to hide that he is actually more humane then he would like others to believe. You get this from his conversations with arya about his father. You can tell he loved his father but he also resents his fathers weakness. All his actions seem created to command fear and respect from those around him and to avoid becoming his father. Even his hatred for tyrion is matched by the love he had for his wife. Bolton seems to be the opposite. The mask seems created to hide that hes more like his son than he would like others to believe. This you can see with how he toys with jamie and of course the red wedding.
True, but I can't even blame him for that. It was Ned's own stupidity that led to that. Littlefinger flat out told him not to trust him and was openly duplicitous in front of him, so Ned hinges his entire plan on trusting him. When it happened I wasn't pissed, I was more like 'Well, I would have done the same ****ing thing. Seriously Ned, what did you think was going to happen?"
Ned had a serious case of Honor before Reason, bit you can't deny that he is a paragon next to anyone else in the series. Naturally, for that reason he had to die. I just think pedo Littlefinger trying to bed Sansa, selling Arya's friend off into prostitution, and arranging Jon Arryn's murder is an unlikable douche.
Ssssssssspoilerssss.
Ned was a great guy, but the series has gotten to the point where I think of most of his good qualities as liabilities rather than things to be admired. My thoughts on him are mostly on how suicidally stupid he was.
Instead I'm gravitating more towards people like Littlefinger who do douchey things that I can't help but smirk at and go 'ok that was pretty clever.' Plus Littlefingers always witty and flippant about things, making it hard to stay mad at him. HUGE SPOILER:
Spoiler:
Also, he killed Joffrey.
Of course, then theres people like Tyrion and Arya who are smart and ruthless but also pretty decent people. Who I love the best.
The series sure does mess with your sense of right and wrong. Also ages, because all the Stark kids are retardedly young.
Originally posted by EpicurusHe also has a backstory that does not excuse, but can explain his actions. He has also done nothing on the level of Gregor's atrocities.
Obsessive, stalkerish type love. And he betrayed her family as well. That, my dear lad, is far and away worse than loving nothing.Actually he does. He loves to rape, beat, and stomp human beings into mush.
Like killing and raping Rhaegar's wife, and killing his son. The very same Rhaegar who did him a great honor by personally knighting him. Ungrateful bastard.
There are many horrible, evil people in aSoIaF, but only Gregor manages to come off as entirely inhuman.
Originally posted by NephthysThe idea I've always had of Ned was that he's a remnant of the past, like Robert. He had fought and won a ton of battles. He commanded the respect and admiration of the entire realm because of how honorable he was. You could always count on him making the right choice. He was obviously a good leader, because the entire North (including the Nights Watch but excluding the Boltons) trusted his leadership. He ruled the North well. People enjoyed following and fighting beside him, and it was a good lifestyle his entire life before he jumped into the cesspool of corruption and shit that Kings Landing became over time after Robert took over. Here, his honor and war capabilities/strategies were useless because people like Littlefinger and Lannisters had pretty much managed to f*ck, cheat, and lie their way to the top. Robert being an absentee leader let them take over.
Ssssssssspoilerssss.Ned was a great guy, but the series has gotten to the point where I think of most of his good qualities as liabilities rather than things to be admired. My thoughts on him are mostly on how suicidally stupid he was.
I like the choice that Ned made. I would have done the same thing. If he hadn't, Tommen and Myrcella would have been put to death along with their entire family (including probably Tyrion). Where's the honor in being the one to initiate that? I don't consider Ned stupid. He just puts his honor before his life, like he always has.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose+1
Actually, that blame is misplaced. Joffrey did that.
The blame belongs to Joffrey and the Lannisters more than it does Ned. If not them, then it would be Roberts fault for being a terrible king and husband resulting in corruption in Kings Landing and the unfaithfulness of Cersie which caused the problem in the first place. The blame definitely shouldn't be put on the one person who actually acted right in that situation.