Lightsaber: Years of Experience Versus Years of Training.

Experience or Training, what makes a Jedi a powerful and masterful Swordsman? It is my belief that years of fighting against Dark Jedi is it what makes Jedi a powerful Duelist. Take Revan and Jaden Korr for example both lived in an age where lightsaber combat was common, both were highly skilled in Lightsaber dueling and were also highly strong in the force, and both(ironically) faced to powerful sith emperors - Vitiate for Revan, Marka Ragnos, for Jaden Korr,

I know the great quote everyone fall back "Great warrior hmm, wars not make one great" I highly doubt that quote from Yoda. Why? Well time and time has shown us that no matter how much you train against a more experienced opponent, you don't stand a chance. Take Anakin, Luke, and Maris brood, all three had some degree of training, but they where defeated(granted Luke had very little to no training) yet snaking had years of experience, yet he lost to a more experienced Duelist like Dooku. Maris, Shaak Ti's apprentice had many years of Training, yet she was overwhelmed by Starkiller's raw power and experience(having defeated several Great Jedi Like Shaak To and Rahm Kota,

In my opinion, you can be as skilled as you wanna be with a lightsaber or a force abilitiy, but in order to become more powerful you will need a great deal of experience through combat and application of any type of techniques. I believe that training can only take you so far, like Kreia said, you will need the contrast in order to fully understand(granted she was speaking about something else) I belief with experience and training one can become a great duellist but to rely on simple training is foolishness. Like I said before in order to become truly good at something one must train of course but you must also apply the technique in the heat of battle to truly become better at it, take the gun range of real life for example, you shoot cardboard cutouts that stand there, you could become a better shot but it takes experience(e.x hunting animals etc) in order to become a good shot. I mean there's a huge difference between a target that stand there and a moving. That is one of the reason I believe the PT order is one of the lesser ones compared to Luke NJO or Jedi Order of Ulic and Revan age. Due to them being very adept in lightsaber combat. And also due to the common use of lightsabers in Luke and Ulic's eras. Please share your opinions I'd love to hear from you guys.

Experience blows training away, look at Anakin vs Drallig.
Drallig, who has been training younger ones for years, yet seen little battle, is trashed by Anakin in like two swings, and yet Drallig is apparently a badass:

"Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Cin Drallig or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"
-Star Wars: Labyrinth of Evil

-Star Wars Insider 87: Casually Report Order 66

"Deep within the Jedi Temple, an incredibly skilled swordsman and Jedi Master named Cin Drallig and his student Whie prepares for Vader's coming."
-Star Wars Revenge of the Sith Video Game

"An esteemed Jedi Master and a swordsman of nearly unparalleled skills...a most formidable opponent to anyone who would dare stand against the Jedi."
-Star Wars Revenge of the Sith Video Game Prima Guide

"An esteemed Jedi Master and a swordsman of great skill..."
-Star Wars Databanks

Yet Cin Drallig goes out like a punkass *****. Apparently, all Anakin needs to do to kill experienced older swordsmen is swing at them really hard/fast.

Anakin Skywalker had 13 years of saber training, roughly. That's a considerable amount of time, but he shouldn't have surpassed masters with decades of training IMO.

As I recall, Exar Kun was only in his twenties when he beat his 300 year old master. 😉

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yet Cin Drallig goes out like a punkass *****. Apparently, all Anakin needs to do to kill experienced older swordsmen is swing at them really hard/fast.

Anakin Skywalker had 13 years of saber training, roughly. That's a considerable amount of time, but he shouldn't have surpassed masters with decades of training IMO.

Well, you could practice in mock duels. I assume they always do that at the temple. Yet you can't go by Drallig and Anakin. Anakin solo's anyone.

Originally posted by Nephthys
As I recall, Exar Kun was only in his twenties when he beat his 300 year old master. 😉

But Exar Kun was raised from infancy, and by the time we see his start of darkness, he's already a badass who's beaten Vodo several times. Anakin started off as a child, and then fast-forwards to being a punk taken out by Dooku like a talentless feeb, and then fast forwards even less time and he's tooling Cin Drallig and Dooku both.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Luke is even worse. Trains for a few feeks or so, then duels Darth goddamn Vader as an equal.

RotJ Vader was jobbing, unless you think Luke swinging like Ray Charles at the plate is superior to the Sith Lord's strength and technique.

Anakin is a prodigy as is Luke and Luke trained for 9 months before he was about equal to Vader.

A lot people would agrue that Luke and Anakin's defeat of great Jedi would be because of their Force Potential so I wont get into that because that is a long forsakened bridge I don't wanna cross. But going back to Exar, guys remember Vodo used a stick against a Saber. You can't really compare mock duels to Real duels IMO. And lastly. Cin Drallig was seriously overrated, I mean he's supposed to be a Jedi Battlemaster, yet he got destroyed by the newly crowned Vader. I feel sorry for the guy, he had a lot of potential. IMO

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yet Cin Drallig goes out like a punkass *****. Apparently, all Anakin needs to do to kill experienced older swordsmen is swing at them really hard/fast.

Anakin Skywalker had 13 years of saber training, roughly. That's a considerable amount of time, but he shouldn't have surpassed masters with decades of training IMO.

Originally posted by Arhael
Realistically you can master any combat within 1-3 years. The rest is conditioning and strength levels, in this case Force power.

Even though Niman explicitly requires ten plus years to master? And proficiency is defined as having done something successfully tens of thousands of times?

K.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But Exar Kun was raised from infancy, and by the time we see his start of darkness, he's already a badass who's beaten Vodo several times. Anakin started off as a child, and then fast-forwards to being a punk taken out by Dooku like a talentless feeb, and then fast forwards even less time and he's tooling Cin Drallig and Dooku both.

I don't see how that takes away from the fact that Vodo had over 10 times the experience and training than Kun did.

The fact is that natural talent and Force power are more important than both experience and training. Those two factors can take you to a certain level, but at a point it just stops mattering as much as someones innate ability as a swordsman and how far they can amp up their attributes. Dooku was more skilled than Dooku, but Anakin was skilled enough that Dooku couldn't really outskill him and it became a contest of power.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Even though Niman explicitly requires ten plus years to master? And proficiency is defined as having done something successfully tens of thousands of times?

K.

(Apologies for the poor quality.)

This is further supported by Kenobi. He didn't change his combat style from Ataru to Soresu until after the events of AotC--yet by the time of RotS(a scant 3 years later), he'd evolved into one of THE top Soresu masters of all time. /shrug

I thought Kenobi studied Soresu after TPM, not after AOTC:

Nope, he changed his style to Soresu after the event's of AotC.

I disagree, with this. A person doesn't need to be battle hardened to be the most viable in a combat situation. Although experience does come with a lot of refinement and familiarity, it doesn't mean experience is superior ,per say, to training. A person with a lot of training that has never seen combat can still match or even out duel someone who has a lot of experience. Also a person with a lot of experience but very little training I see as at a disadvantage against someone who is properly trained. I do think training is superior to experience but only by a small margin. The trick is to find a healthy balance between the two.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nope, he changed his style to Soresu after the event's of AotC.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nope, he changed his style to Soresu after the event's of AotC.

I thought he started studying Soresu after TPM because he saw its limitations against Maul, then he fully made the switch after AotC.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I thought he started studying Soresu after TPM because he saw its limitations against Maul, then he fully made the switch after AotC.