Originally posted by Intrepid37
Exactly. The two situations are incomparable.
A Jedi Master collapsed two buildings around the position of Malgus in an effort to crush the Sith Lord beneath tons of rubble. By all means, majority would have perished in this situation but Malgus was too strong to prevent even tons of debris from crushing him beneath and blew it apart with his awesome power.
In contrast, Tenebrous couldn't replicate what Malgus did in similar situation. If it was Malgus in his place, he would have shown Plagueis what it means to be a DARTH.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How?A Jedi Master collapsed two buildings around the position of Malgus in an effort to crush the Sith Lord beneath tons of rubble. By all means, majority would have perished in this situation but Malgus was too strong to prevent even tons of debris from crushing him beneath and blew it apart with his awesome power.
In contrast, Tenebrous couldn't replicate what Malgus did in similar situation. If it was Malgus in his place, he would have shown Plagueis what it means to be a DARTH.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Tenebrous held up the rubble as well, just like Malgus did. The difference is that Plagueis was there to call it down on Teberous while Tenebrous was supporting it. If Plagueis hadn't been there, Tenebrous would have been successful.
Actually, Plagueis didn't collapse that ceiling, it began to collapse due to an explosion within the cave and Tenebrous found himself beneath it. Initially Tenebrous attempted to prevent the ceiling from collapsing and Plagueis joined the effort but then Plagueis saw an opportunity here to kill his Master and shifted to assisting the collapse of ceiling instead.
Here:
While Tenebrous was preoccupied holding aloft the slabs that threatened to crush the ship, Plagueis quickly reoriented himself, aiming his raised hands at the plummeting slabs above his Master and, with a downward motion of both arms, brought them down so quickly and with so much momentum that Tenebrous was buried almost before he understood what had hit him.
Stone dust eddying around him, Plagueis stood rooted in place as slabs interred the starship, as well. But he gave it no thought. His success in bringing the ceiling down on Tenebrous was proof enough that the Bith had grown sluggish and expendable. Otherwise, he would have divined the true source of the danger he had sensed, and Plagueis would be the one pressed to the floor of the grotto, head cracked open like an egg and chest cavity pierced by the pointed end of a fallen stalactite.
Nonetheless, Malgus did much better then Tenebrous in similar situation since he found himself buried beneath a mountain of rubble with some part of it landing above him, held it aloft and then blew it apart, jumping out of the remainder of the mountain of rubble afterwards.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I rechecked the information in SWDP.Actually, Plagueis didn't collapse that ceiling, it began to collapse due to an explosion within the cave and Tenebrous found himself beneath it. Initially Tenebrous attempted to prevent the ceiling from collapsing and Plagueis joined the effort but then Plagueis saw an opportunity here to kill his Master and shifted to assisting the collapse of ceiling instead.
Here:
While Tenebrous was preoccupied holding aloft the slabs that threatened to crush the ship, Plagueis quickly reoriented himself, aiming his raised hands at the plummeting slabs above his Master and, with a downward motion of both arms, brought them down so quickly and with so much momentum that Tenebrous was buried almost before he understood what had hit him.
Stone dust eddying around him, Plagueis stood rooted in place as slabs interred the starship, as well. But he gave it no thought. His success in bringing the ceiling down on Tenebrous was proof enough that the Bith had grown sluggish and expendable. Otherwise, he would have divined the true source of the danger he had sensed, and Plagueis would be the one pressed to the floor of the grotto, head cracked open like an egg and chest cavity pierced by the pointed end of a fallen stalactite.
Nonetheless, Malgus did much better then Tenebrous in similar situation since he found himself buried beneath a mountain of rubble with some part of it landing above him, held it aloft and then blew it apart, jumping out of the remainder of the mountain of rubble afterwards.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
The difference is that Plagueis brought it down on Tenebrous while Tenebrous was supporting it. No one tried to bring down the rubble on Malgus while he was holding it up.
Yes, nobody attempted to sabotage Malgus's actions because he was already buried beneath a mountain of rubble and it was virtually impossible to make it out alive in his situation. Nonetheless, Malgus pulled off seemingly impossible even in his worst condition.
---
As far as situation of Tenebrous is concerned, their is no indication that he would have prevented ceiling from collapsing, let alone go as far as to cast it aside like Malgus. In addition, a collapsing ceiling presented ample fault-lines to Plagueis to exploit and he did so successfully.
Plagueis didn't directly dampen Tenebrous's effort to prevent ceiling from caving in but rather facilitated the already collapsing ceiling to complete its fall in quick fashion (from possibly additional angles) which Tenebrous wasn't able to prevent due to already being stressed by his existing effort.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
If you replace Tenebrous with Malgus, Malgus would have died as well, on account of Plagueis collapsing the ceiling on him.
Malgus would have held up the portion of rubble above him even if rest of the ceiling had caved in and then cast it aside.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
No, because Plagueis would have collapsed it on Malgus just as he collapsed it on Tenebrous.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Plagueis cannot do this. What he can do is to facilitate collapse of ceiling with his power but he cannot overcome Malgus's might at the same time. He didn't overcome Teneberous's might, he just facilitated the collapse of ceiling from different angle.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I'm not sure any of this matters. Malgus won't succeed in defending himself where Tenebrous failed.
Malgus demonstrated the capability to prevent tons of rubble from crushing him beneath and even went as far as to cast it aside afterwards to free himself, this in his worst condition. At his prime, Malgus can do better, much better.
You are being miscalculating here.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Tenebrous held up considerable more stone.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Why will Malgus be able to prevent Plagueis from bringing down the ceiling on him when Tenebrous wasn't?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Based on what? How many tons?
There's nothing about tons, but the caves were described as huge as cathedrals. When Plagueis stacked the rubble, the stack was over 10 meters tall.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Plagueis can bring down the ceiling but Malgus would hold the segment of it around his position and then cast it aside (if in shoes of Tenebrous).
Originally posted by Intrepid37
It were large enough to utterly crush Tenebrous' ship, which would have been big enough to carry himself, Plagueis and a droid.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
There's nothing about tons, but the caves were described as huge as cathedrals. When Plagueis stacked the rubble, the stack was over 10 meters tall.
Also, how you made that 10 meters assessment?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Plagueis is more powerful than Malgus. If Malgus even manages to temporarily hold it aloft, Plagueis hold of the stone will overpower Malgus' hold of it.
Malgus demonstrated greater power in comparison to Tenebrous. While he didn't prevent the collapse of buildings around his position, he did prevent the rubble from crushing him beneath and blew it apart.
Let us substitute collapse of buildings with Plagueis's effort to collapse the unstable ceiling and act of prevention of debris from crushing Tenebrous with the same from Malgus, and difference becomes apparent. Malgus prevented tonnage of debris from crushing him beneath while Tenebrous could not.