Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean like how Cad Bane/Grievous/Durge/Pre Visla/Boba Fett/Jango Fett etc etc get pwned in a similar manner?
PIS/CIS, and Grievous has been shown dodging TK.
Also funny that you mention Grievous considering everytime he does lose its due to TK.
Also Grievous has superior feats to Cipher 9 and the Champion. And yet Grievous lost to Kit, and dueled Ki-Adi for hours. Luminara dueled on par with Ventress who is at least Grievous level.
I don't really care. The Champion has beaten Sith, Jedi, and even groups of Jedi before. He beat Kellion Jarro and his apprentice at the same time, while starting in lightsaber range. And Jarro was known for slamming mando's with the Force so hard their rocketpacks exploded. Yet the Champ beat him. One dialogue option has him grab, judo-slam and shoot a Jedi before they can react.
Yeah, but no-one pins him and easily dispatches him with it, do they? And its always after a good fight.
Well I disagree with that assumption. The Champs feats are every bit as good as Grievous'. For all we know, he could be a high-tech cyborg every bit as fast as Grievous hopped up on combat stims, encased in the best armor in the galaxy and wielding mini-cannons and heavy missile ordinance. Also Luminara didn't duel on par with Ventress. She fought her for about 30 seconds then lost.
At the end of the day, if Revan couldn't dispatch Cipher 9 and the Champ with the Force, neither are the Council members.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't really care. The Champion has beaten Sith, Jedi, and even groups of Jedi before. He beat Kellion Jarro and his apprentice at the same time, while starting in lightsaber range. And Jarro was known for slamming mando's with the Force so hard their rocketpacks exploded. Yet the Champ beat him. One dialogue option has him grab, judo-slam and shoot a Jedi before they can react.
You act as though he did it alone. All of these he had a companion with him. Kellion Jarro defeating 100 mandos is likely hyperbole mate.
Yeah, but no-one pins him and easily dispatches him with it, do they? And its always after a good fight.
Gameplay is n-canon. We don't know if its a good fight.
Well I disagree with that assumption. The Champs feats are every bit as good as Grievous'. For all we know, he could be a high-tech cyborg every bit as fast as Grievous hopped up on combat stims, encased in the best armor in the galaxy and wielding mini-cannons and heavy missile ordinance. Also Luminara didn't duel on par with Ventress. She fought her for about 30 seconds then lost.
Baseless assumptions. The Champs feats are not as good as Grievous'. Grievous defeated Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi, Aayla, and K'Kruk at once. I don't care how tired they are, that's way above anything the Champ has done.
Luminara lasted more than 30 seconds, and she had no indepth perception at the time so...yes she did fight on par with Ventress.
At the end of the day, if Revan couldn't dispatch Cipher 9 and the Champ with the Force, neither are the Council members.
That's because Revan was busy fending off two powerful Sith Lords.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
You act as though he did it alone. All of these he had a companion with him. Kellion Jarro defeating 100 mandos is likely hyperbole mate.
The only companions he had at the time were Mako, a slicer, and Gault, a con artist. Neither of them are good fighters.
"Jedi Master Kellian Jarro is both hated and respected among the Mandalorians for his actions during the Sacking of Coruscant. As the Jedi Temple burned, Master Jarro single-handedly eliminated over one hundred battle-hardened Mandalorian commandos in the streets of Galactic City.
The survivors described him as an unstoppable force of nature, deflecting heavy blaster fire and slamming armor-plated warriors to the ground so hard that their rocket packs exploded on impact. Nearly half of Master Jarro's victims came from the venerable Clan Spar, which swore an oath to repay the debt. Unfortunately, the clan members were executed for crimes against the Empire before they could make good on that promise."
This story is also told to you when you're assigned his bounty.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Gameplay is n-canon. We don't know if its a good fight.
I was referring to Grievous.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Baseless assumptions. The Champs feats are not as good as Grievous'. Grievous defeated Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi, Aayla, and K'Kruk at once. I don't care how tired they are, that's way above anything the Champ has done.Luminara lasted more than 30 seconds, and she had no indepth perception at the time so...yes she did fight on par with Ventress.
Its not a baseless assumption, its a possibility. Writing the Champ off as just a normal forceless dude is a baseless assumption. He has access to many things that could put him on a Jedi's level.
While they were exhausted. I care how tired they were. Grievous was told by Dooku that in a straight fight he was no match for Shaak Ti and the like. His subsequent portrayals have shown this to be accurate.
As Emperor said, it was only season 1 Ventress.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
That's because Revan was busy fending off two powerful Sith Lords.
Surely if it were so easy he could just Force push them off the platform.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The only companions he had at the time were Mako, a slicer, and Gault, a con artist. Neither of them are good fighters.
I mean T3 still scored hits on Vitiate's clones. When distracted anyone of the companions
"Jedi Master Kellian Jarro is both hated and respected among the Mandalorians for his actions during the Sacking of Coruscant. As the Jedi Temple burned, Master Jarro single-handedly eliminated over one hundred battle-hardened Mandalorian commandos in the streets of Galactic City.
This is impressive and I doubt Luminara would be able to replicate it. But I think Kit, and Ki-Adi would likely be capable of replicating this. Remember how Pong Krell faired against the 501st and the 212th.
The survivors described him as an unstoppable force of nature, deflecting heavy blaster fire and slamming armor-plated warriors to the ground so hard that their rocket packs exploded on impact. Nearly half of Master Jarro's victims came from the venerable Clan Spar, which swore an oath to repay the debt. Unfortunately, the clan members were executed for crimes against the Empire before they could make good on that promise."
Again impressive.
I was referring to Grievous.Its not a baseless assumption, its a possibility. Writing the Champ off as just a normal forceless dude is a baseless assumption. He has access to many things that could put him on a Jedi's level.
Like what exactly? His feats do indicate cyborg is likely his canon species though.
While they were exhausted. [b]I care how tired they were. Grievous was told by Dooku that in a straight fight he was no match for Shaak Ti and the like. His subsequent portrayals have shown this to be accurate.
Dooku also said that in a straight fight he was no match for Kenobi, and yet in The Clone Wars Obi-Wan has hardly dominated him.
As Emperor said, it was only season 1 Ventress.
Who should still be post Cetus Deception. Season 1 Ventress still babyshook a Council-level opponent.
Surely if it were so easy he could just Force push them off the platform.
Easier said than done when you are facing off against two of the "greatest champions of the Empire." Also that just makes Revan seem inferior considering people like Dooku were more than capable of dominating dozens of Pyke while dodging Kenobi and Skywalker's offensive.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
I mean T3 still scored hits on Vitiate's clones. When distracted anyone of the companions
That's just an illusion clone though.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
This is impressive and I doubt Luminara would be able to replicate it. But I think Kit, and Ki-Adi would likely be capable of replicating this. Remember how Pong Krell faired against the 501st and the 212th.
Yeah, I agree. I could see them pulling it off. But the thing is that Champ beat this guy as I said, while within lightsaber range and with the guys padawan backing him up at the same time. A Jedi padawan is still above a slicer and a con artist when it comes to back up. The Champ beating him is a really impressive feat. Especially since its not even end-game Champ.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Like what exactly? His feats do indicate cyborg is likely his canon species though.
Advanced cybernetics, reflex, speed and strength enhancing implants, combat stims and adrenals. Top of the line armor, weapons and defensive systems.
Depending on how canon you think it, there did exist armor in Kotor that was said to have in built tech that increased speed, strength and reflexes. The Champ could easily have enhanced capabilities through such technology.
And I agree about the cyborg thing.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku also said that in a straight fight he was no match for Kenobi, and yet in The Clone Wars Obi-Wan has hardly dominated him.
Didn't Dooku say that shortly before RotS? Where Kenobi basically dominated him in short order in a duel.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Who should still be post Cetus Deception. Season 1 Ventress still babyshook a Council-level opponent.
And Luminara is a Council level opponent. That Ventress beat someone on her level and beat her too is to be expected.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Easier said than done when you are facing off against two of the "greatest champions of the Empire." Also that just makes Revan seem inferior considering people like Dooku were more than capable of dominating dozens of Pyke while dodging Kenobi and Skywalker's offensive.
Cipher 9 and the Champ represent threats well beyond those few dozen Pyke. Both of them have defeated small armies of opponents in single battles. Both of them were referred to as among the "greatest champions of the Empire."
Originally posted by Nephthys
That's just an illusion clone though.
Why did T3-s sensors pick it up then?
Yeah, I agree. I could see them pulling it off. But the thing is that Champ beat this guy as I said, while within lightsaber range and with the guys padawan backing him up at the same time. A Jedi padawan is still above a slicer and a con artist when it comes to back up. The Champ beating him is a really impressive feat. Especially since its not even end-game Champ.
That's his best feat though, assuming that allying with Darth Tormen is canon.
Advanced cybernetics, reflex, speed and strength enhancing implants, combat stims and adrenals. Top of the line armor, weapons and defensive systems.Depending on how canon you think it, there did exist armor in Kotor that was said to have in built tech that increased speed, strength and reflexes. The Champ could easily have enhanced capabilities through such technology.
And I agree about the cyborg thing.
True.
Didn't Dooku say that shortly before RotS? Where Kenobi basically dominated him in short order in a duel.
He said it in LOE, the same novel that states that even Dooku had been hard pressed to defeat Grievous at times.
And Luminara is a Council level opponent. That Ventress beat someone on her level and beat her too is to be expected.
Right that's my point. That being said though I do put Luminara slightly below Grievous.
Cipher 9 and the Champ represent threats well beyond those few dozen Pyke. Both of them have defeated small armies of opponents in single battles. Both of them were referred to as among the "greatest champions of the Empire."
When has Cipher 9 defeated small armies? And neither Cipher 9 nor the Champ have demonstrated more defense against TK than the pykes.
Also the Pykes aren't some fodder group, Lom Pyke and his entourage are amongst the most feared crime syndicates in the galaxy.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Why did T3-s sensors pick it up then?
I dunno how droids work.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
That's his best feat though, assuming that allying with Darth Tormen is canon.
Yeah, and it puts him on Jedi Council level or higher and shows that he can defeat powerful Jedi Masters despite them being capable of and willing to use offensive TK. He's at least as good as Ki-Adi or Kit.
Also, I'd argue that the Jedi Battlemaster would probably be superior to Jarro.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
He said it in LOE, the same novel that states that even Dooku had been hard pressed to defeat Grievous at times.
Hmmmmm. I really hate how Grievous' level is so damn hard to figure out.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Right that's my point. That being said though I do put Luminara slightly below Grievous.
Ok.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
When has Cipher 9 defeated small armies? And neither Cipher 9 nor the Champ have demonstrated more defense against TK than the pykes.Also the Pykes aren't some fodder group, Lom Pyke and his entourage are amongst the most feared crime syndicates in the galaxy.
Its been too long since I played the IA campaign to remember the details. But 9 fights through bases and ships and compounds and shit all the time. Killed a Nikto cult on Taris, fought through Jadus' ship etc.
Cipher 9 has dodged TK. Also Cipher 9 possesses a portable energy shield said to be "capable of deflecting lightsabers or vehicle mounted heavy weapons with ease." The Champ has also tanked TK a few times and possesses top of the line armoring and shielding.