theory on Meetra Surik/the exile during TOR: Revan

So we all asked ourselves "why the **** did the exile go from beat Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion and Darth Traya to getting her ass handed to her by some old sith councilor with no feats or accolades, Many would argue that perhaps Meetra Surik was not much of a lightsaber duelist and that perhaps she was more of a force combatant than a warrior, which is a fine argument to make, however I should add that while he is not explicitly stated to be a master duelist, Sion was a formidable lightsaber combatant, whose killed a great number of jedi.

That said, we're not here to debate her lightsaber skills but rather the cause for her defeat by the sith Nyriss. First I will explain one of the most popular reasons that people think Meetra Fell so easily to Darth Nyriss.

Meetra lost her connection to her allies

This reason is one of the most popular ones. the theory suggests that Meetra's leaving her allies behind, caused her to lose her connection with them - her source of power, which coupled with Dark Nyriss' tapping into the nexus of dromund Kass made her fall to the dark councilor.

*sigh* now while this theory does make sense and is much more attractive than "meetra just sux" 'theory' it has no legitimacy - no facts to back it up, here's a quote from the game that convinces me this theory is without merit.

"A bond between two living beings is not something easily broken. It not a choice… it is like breaking a feeling. Like turning away from the Force. To break a bond, your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to die—but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply… it would simply be empty, a wound." - Zez - Kai El

as stated by the jedi master Zez-Kai El a bond between two living things can't be so easily broken. Its not a choice. Meaning Meetra couldn't just leave and then boom no more bond with her allies, that would be(to quote spock) highly illogical, let's continue. It is like breaking a feeling. Like turning away from the force, here is the interesting part "Like turning away from the force" the only reason that Meetra Surik turned away from the force was because of Malchor V and its echo - its wound. Meaning to cut her connection to her allies she would have to repeat something like malachor or go through that same experience again, ergo, this theory has no merit.

Now i'll give my theory. we all know that Meetra - a wound in the force, draws from the strength of her allies, from the countless of people she killed, growing in power as she kills and as her Apprentices get stronger, however one thing I feel people tend to dismiss or more likely - forget, is her bond with kreia. the sole reason why she was able to feel the force again was because of Kreia, that said it is my belief that kreia was one of the most powerful sources of power from which meetra drew from, a source which never truly diminished or disappeared until they met and fought on Malachor V, I believe that Kreia was a huge part of Meetra, She was a huge source of power and strength for the exiled jedi and that power was lost with Kreia's death. This coupled with Nyriss' tapping into the dark nexus of Dromund Kass is what I believe lead to the demise of the jedi Exile.

Many would argue that "the bond was broken when Kreia fell to the dark side, the exiles feelings changed!" um no, incorrect. Kreia never fell, she simply revealed her 'true' self, if you ever played the game you would know that kreia was always one to applaud manipulation and deceit during her influence opportunities, and as for the exile's feelings changing, once again incorrect, she never held any grudge against Kreia or wanted to kill her - in fact Meetra tried to convince kreia to return to the lightside, kreia explicitly states this by saying "are bond remains but nothing more" during the meeting on the Dantooine. I believe that even during their fight Meetra was drawing on Kreia's power and vice-versa, both were equal in battle and in the force which in my opinion is pretty logical considering their bond. Do you agree with me? let me know why and if you don't agree with let me know?

Or, Meetra has never seen a True Sith who is on the Dark F*cking council.

I mean, look at Scourge, barely able to take out a few droids, yet he was a Sith Lord. All of them were underrated pretty badly.

Exile is male

Shut up an accept the canon

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Shut up an accept the canon

Originally posted by PTforthewin
nothing's canon

Interesting, so Meetra was actually depowered after KotoR2? It'd make some sense.

I hate meetra anyway the female version specifically I always play the male in any game because being a woman seems to suck

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Or, Meetra has never seen a True Sith who is on the Dark F*cking council.

Kreia is far more powerful in the ways of the force considering no other 'true' sith has mastered dark healing/drain like she has, so I HIGHLY doubt Nyriss tops Kreia, Nihilius or Sion in terms of power

Interesting, so Meetra was actually depowered after KotoR2? It'd make some sense.

Yes, it does especially when you take the time to consider and study how such force bonds work, something that my predecessors - the ones who tried to 'explain', never did. honestly it surprises me that people haven't actually looked at the reasons why Meetra lost to Nyriss, Her source of power(kreia) is no longer supporting her, Nyriss being a master of sith sorcery would've obviously tapped into the nexus that is dromund Kass especially against Jedi like Scourge and Meetra. I'm not trying to discredit Meetra Surik but rather provide evidence that shows that this is not Meetra at her prime, that's not to say that Meetra isn't an excellent Duelist and force user, she obviously is considering she defeated Sion(a man whose killed a great deal of jedi) on Korriban before being told by kreia to run, she dueled assassins that were specifically trained to kill jedi, she defeated the apprentice of Darth Nihlius while she was still relearning the was of the force, she was highly attuned to the force that she was able to learn the rare ability, Force Enlightenment and even Revan said that he thought her to be a strong jedi master(which is during the Mando wars) honestly Kreia played a huge part in Meetra's becoming a powerful jedi, but meetra without kreia is no joke.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
I hate meetra anyway the female version specifically I always play the male in any game because being a woman seems to suck

Anyway, that's a sound theory, but Surik received most of her power from all her other allies, who are still very much alive, as well as the one she most likely still has with Revan.

The real reason none of this comes into play is that Karpyshyn knew and still most likely doesn't know anything about KotOR II. Either that or Surik had a serious falling out with her students that caused the Council she started to hate her.

FreshestSlice
You've officially reached the age of 9.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You've officially reached the age of 9.

Anyway, that's a sound theory, but Surik received most of her power from all her other allies, who are still very much alive, as well as the one she most likely still has with Revan.

The real reason none of this comes into play is that Karpyshyn knew and still most likely doesn't know anything about KotOR II. Either that or Surik had a serious falling out with her students that caused the Council she started to hate her.

Good point, but remember the force bond draws on the strengths of her allies, that said her allies weren't fully trained even after Malachor, in fact Kreia says that they - the lost jedi, will focus on rebuilding the order. now here's something else that I forgot to mention.

#1, Bao Dur's fate remains unknown.
#2, and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't force bonds developed between force sensitives? if so then we cut Canderous out of the equation.
#3, the only person on her team that has actually been fully trained in the ways of the force is Visas Marr, with Mical never truly completing his training, now again correct me if I'm wrong but like I said aren't well trained jedi much bigger pillars of support than jedi that haven't completed their training? now that's not to say I disagree with you point, but there are some things we tend to overlook

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Good point, but remember the force bond draws on the strengths of her allies, that said her allies weren't fully trained even after Malachor, in fact Kreia says that they - the lost jedi, will focus on rebuilding the order. now here's something else that I forgot to mention.

#1, Bao Dur's fate remains unknown.
#2, and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't force bonds developed between force sensitives? if so then we cut Canderous out of the equation.
#3, the only person on her team that has actually been fully trained in the ways of the force is Visas Marr, with Mical never truly completing his training, now again correct me if I'm wrong but like I said aren't well trained jedi much bigger pillars of support than jedi that haven't completed their training? now that's not to say I disagree with you point, but there are some things we tend to overlook

Force Bonds can form between anyone, but I see your point. It only matters with the Force Sensitives in this case.

Training has nothing to do with it. It's about Force Potential. They couldn't beat Kreia because they didn't know how to use their power, not that they lacked it. That power is still there and this is where Surik gained her strength. Surik has the training to temper that power.

The Exile can complete Micals training and train Bao Dur, Brianna, Atton and Mira to be Jedi. And don't forget that Atris can be alive to help rebuild, or at least all the knowledge she gathered would survive.

BTW, I think this is a good theory, but I don't think its right. As I recall Karpyshan said (and possibly wrote in Revan) that the Exile had recovered her connection to the Force by the time of book. So my theory is that she probably wouldn't be a Wound anymore. Thus she wouldn't be able to draw on her allies strength and who knows what would happen with the power she'd drained from her opponents.

Also, if much of her power came from Kreia then killing her wouldn't get rid of that, she simply drain it like she does to everyone else she kills (barring Nihilus and maybe Sion).

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Bao Dur dies on Telos, I think Obsidian said.

Force Bonds can form between anyone, but I see your point. It only matters with the Force Sensitives in this case.

Training has nothing to do with it. It's about Force Potential. They couldn't beat Kreia because they didn't know how to use their power, not that they lacked it. That power is still there and this is where Surik gained her strength. Surik has the training to temper that power.

yeah thanks for correcting me on that, still we don't know their potential, the only thing that might help us is Kreia's quote on Mical accepting a seat on the high council, Visas surviving Nihilus' consumption of katar as for the others, their potential is unknown to us, but I see you point 🙂

Oh and Bastila is still around too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh and Bastila is still around too.

I hope this doesn't sound douchy, but what does that have to do with Meetra? don't tell you think Meetra drew power from jedi from all over the galaxy!

Originally posted by PTforthewin
Exile is male

I'm going to cut off your non-existant testicles -.-

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I hope this doesn't sound douchy, but what does that have to do with Meetra? don't tell you think Meetra drew power from jedi from all over the galaxy!

I was referring to the Jedi who could rebuild the order. Read my first post.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I was referring to the Jedi who could rebuild the order. Read my first post.

I'm going to cut off your non-existant testicles -.-