Originally posted by carthage
Lol no
Originally posted by carthage
He is featless,
And Bane, who spent hours in the archives reading up on the legendary feats of the ancient Sith Lords, was impressed enough with Kas'im's technique to ponder the possibility that Kas'im may have been the greatest duelist who had ever lived up to that point.
Originally posted by carthage
and slower
Originally posted by carthage
and has weaker force feats than Tiin.
Originally posted by carthage
If he sucks badly enough to lose to trainee Bane, he isn't going to beat a Jedi council member.
Bane is less than a week from being the Sith equivalent of Grand Master, so don't argue that Tinn's rank somehow makes him superior to Kas'im.
Sabers: Kas'sim is a reputed master of seven forms, and was an instructor who taught the "best" of future Sith lords during Bane's age. However, given his need for trickery and even when he held the advantage against Bane with Jar kai he still had difficulty. This is a poor reflection on his abilities as a blademaster. Whereas, Tiin was able to spar with Windu, is considered one of the best Swordsmen in the Jedi order, and has moved his saber fast enough to form a shield. Kas'sim's reputed skill was shown to be lackluster when he lost to one of his students even with an advantage, whereas Tiin was able to spar with the 2nd greatest Jedi of his era on 'even' terms. Tiin takes a massive edge in sabers
Force: Kas'sim's showings are limited to making a force shield, force enhanced reflexes (all nexus feats), best control, and that's it really. Whereas Tiin has thrown a droid 400 meters, redirected missiles, and crushed a droid with a massive machine part. Kas'sim's focus as a blademaster is primarily force enhancement, whereas Tiin has better feats across the board mainly in the area of TK. Tiin gets another edge here
Skill: Kas'sim is arguably more skilled, but as mentioned this statement is built on a 3rd person quote from Bane. No edge is given here as Kas'sim hasn't demonstrated any of his supposed mastery with anyone of note
Verdict: Kas'sim's horrid performance against Bane calls into question his ability to contend with a council member like Tiin. Tiin possesses better feats across the board, and even with his lack of dueling feats his match with Windu and accolades suggest a high level of skill. He also possesses superior speed, force abilities, and is generally more well rounded than Kas'sim. Kas'sim's feats relating to his force enhancement is called into question, as he always sparred on nexuses and his ability is further diminished as he struggled against a trainee.
Tiin takes this 10/10
ou are writing off his skill based on a lack of exposure when his high level of skill is made very obvious. Kas'im is built up as a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat who defeated his master Na'daz, also noted to be a master of lightsaber combat, and spent the next few decades perfecting and refining every move and maneuver of every form.And Bane, who spent hours in the archives reading up on the legendary feats of the ancient Sith Lords, was impressed enough with Kas'im's technique to ponder the possibility that Kas'im may have been the greatest duelist who had ever lived up to that point.
He has no feats to suggest he was the greatest blademaster of his time apart from a third person quote from Bane. He never defeated anyone of note, never even sparred with anyone with feats apart from Bane, regardless of his supposed "Skill" there is nothing to suggest he is better than Tiin. His sole accolade comes from Bane's opinion and is not backed up by anything at all
Kas'im was striking at a speed of ten strikes per second at the opening of his fight with Bane, and after switching to dual blades his speed increases further
Nexus feat. He has no off nexus feats to suggest he is capable of the same speed. Tiin has moved fast enough to form his saber as a shield, moved fast enough to appear to be in three places, and can match Windu's speed. Kas'sim has nothing to prove he is faster.
Withstanding the impact of a force wave that brings down an entire temple impresses me more than throwing a battle droid.
Except that by Bane's own admission using/learning to implement a force shield is one of the most basic lessons taught 👆. If Kas'sim is a master than he is just a master of that basic ability, as none of his force feats suggest a command of the force at all. Tiin's TK will send him flying, as even that shield feat was done on a nexus that boosted their showings.
Or maybe you just underrate Bane. Bane by this point is less than a week from becoming Dark Lord of the Sith, and already wields a tremendous amount of power.Bane is less than a week from being the Sith equivalent of Grand Master, so don't argue that Tinn's rank somehow makes him superior to Kas'im.
Lehon influenced Bane to the point to where he almost fainted like a pussy. His best TK feat off was killing a featless Sith master, breaking crates and tents, and on Lehon he could lift a massive door and crumble a pillar. If there is no discrepancy in the power of due to the fact he was off a nexus to you, then you are just being a raving fanboy. Oh wait you are!
Originally posted by carthage
Sabers: Kas'sim is a reputed master of seven forms, and was an instructor who taught the "best" of future Sith lords during Bane's age. However, given his need for trickery and even when he held the advantage against Bane with Jar kai he still had difficulty. This is a poor reflection on his abilities as a blademaster. Whereas, Tiin was able to spar with Windu, is considered one of the best Swordsmen in the Jedi order, and has moved his saber fast enough to form a shield. Kas'sim's reputed skill was shown to be lackluster when he lost to one of his students even with an advantage, whereas Tiin was able to spar with the 2nd greatest Jedi of his era on 'even' terms. Tiin takes a massive edge in sabersForce: Kas'sim's showings are limited to making a force shield, force enhanced reflexes (all nexus feats), best control, and that's it really. Whereas Tiin has thrown a droid 400 meters, redirected missiles, and crushed a droid with a massive machine part. Kas'sim's focus as a blademaster is primarily force enhancement, whereas Tiin has better feats across the board mainly in the area of TK. Tiin gets another edge here
Skill: Kas'sim is arguably more skilled, but as mentioned this statement is built on a 3rd person quote from Bane. No edge is given here as Kas'sim hasn't demonstrated any of his supposed mastery with anyone of note
Verdict: Kas'sim's horrid performance against Bane calls into question his ability to contend with a council member like Tiin. Tiin possesses better feats across the board, and even with his lack of dueling feats his match with Windu and accolades suggest a high level of skill. He also possesses superior speed, force abilities, and is generally more well rounded than Kas'sim. Kas'sim's feats relating to his force enhancement is called into question, as he always sparred on nexuses and his ability is further diminished as he struggled against a trainee.
Tiin takes this 10/10
Your entire argument here is based on the fact that Kas'im lost to Bane, and that Tinn sparred with Windu...
Bane by this point already has numerous quotes confirming his immense strength and command of the force. Right before heading of to Lehon Bane was pretty much promoted to the Sith Council, so "trainee" is not exactly an accurate term to describe him, especially when he's only a few days away from becoming the Dark Lord of the Sith. As evidenced by Bane's subsequent ascension to the title of Dark Lord, and the amount of buildup and hype given to Kas'im's capabilities as a duelist, the duel of Lehon was being used as a way to showcase Bane's immense and still growing power rather than showcasing Kas'im to be weak. I have no idea why this is such a difficult notion to get through your head.
Sparring with someone doesn't mean shit. Bane sparred with Kas'im on the rooftop for hours at a time, when Kas'im was still way above Bane in terms of ability. By contrast, Tinn sparred with Windu for only a couple of panels. This does not prove anything about Tinn's ability as a duelist.
Originally posted by carthage
He has no feats to suggest he was the greatest blademaster of his time apart from a third person quote from Bane. He never defeated anyone of note, never even sparred with anyone with fears apart from Bane, regardless of his supposed "Skill" there is nothing to suggest he is better than Tiin. His sole accolade comes from Bane's opinion and is not backed up by anything at all
Bane's opinion is not invalid. Bane spent hours upon hours reading up on the feats of the ancient Sith Lords, and was far more impressed with them then he was with the modern Sith. Bane is also very smart by this point even. The fact that somebody as smart and as well educated as Bane ponders the possibility that Kas'im may have been the greatest duelist ever in over six thousand years of lightsaber combat still speaks leaps and bounds for Kas'im's immense skill whether you want it to or not.
Originally posted by carthage
Nexus feat. He has no off nexus feats to suggest he is capable of the same speed. Tiin has moved fast enough to form his saber as a shield, moved fast enough to appear to be in three places, and can match Windu's speed. Kas'sim has nothing to prove he is faster.
And WTF do you mean Tinn matched Windu's speed? Do you mean in a sparring match where they weren't going all out? And even if that were the case, then what the **** happened in the Chancellor's office on Coruscant?!!
Originally posted by carthage
Except that by Bane's own admission using/learning to implement a force shield is one of the most basic lessons taught 👆. If Kas'sim is a master than he is just a master of that basic ability, as none of his force feats suggest a command of the force at all. Tiin's TK will send him flying, as even that shield feat was done on a nexus that boosted their showings.
Unless Tinn can generate a powerful enough force attack to destroy a temple, then he is not "sending Kas'im flying."
Originally posted by carthage
Lehon influenced Bane to the point to where he almost fainted like a pussy. His best TK feat off was killing a featless Sith master, breaking crates and tents, and on Lehon he could lift a massive door and crumble a pillar. If there is no discrepancy in the power of due to the fact he was off a nexus to you,
Originally posted by carthage
then you are just being a raving fanboy. Oh wait you are!
You're irrational hatred for Bane, Revan, and Vitiate causes you to write them off as weak despite an orgy of quotes placing them among the most powerful beings in the Galaxy, a good number of these quotes not being from an in universe point of view. The fact that you blatantly ignore and refuse to acknowledge these quotes due to your irrational hatred for these characters speaks for immense amounts of bias, ignorance, and stupidity.
It is time for you to pull your head out of your ass and stop being a complete and utter retard!
Bane by this point already has numerous quotes confirming his immense strength and command of the force. Right before heading of to Lehon Bane was pretty much promoted to the Sith Council, so "trainee" is not exactly an accurate term to describe him, especially when he's only a few days away from becoming the Dark Lord of the Sith. As evidenced by Bane's subsequent ascension to the title of Dark Lord, and the amount of buildup and hype given to Kas'im's capabilities as a duelist, the duel of Lehon was being used as a way to showcase Bane's immense and still growing power rather than showcasing Kas'im to be weak. I have no idea why this is such a difficult notion to get through your head
That's all cute and everything, but Kas'sim has no relevant feats or accolades apart from that sole quote that Bane gave which has no bearing as Kas'sim didn't fight anyone other than Bane.
especially when he's only a few days away from becoming the Dark Lord of the Sith.
So he was still a trainee by a few days, thanks for proving me right 👆
Sparring with someone doesn't mean shit. Bane sparred with Kas'im on the rooftop for hours at a time, when Kas'im was still way above Bane in terms of ability. By contrast, Tinn sparred with Windu for only a couple of panels. This does not prove anything about Tinn's ability as a duelist.
And Kas'sim knowingly held back from Trainee Bane, had a tremendous advantage, was more skilled and still lost to a Bane whose best feat was breaking crates and tents. So much for all that immense skill, huh? Kas'sim pulled out all of the stops and still lost to trainee Bane. Tiin at least proved he could hold his own, and showcased numerous other feats that Kas'sim lacks. Try again
You mean aside from beating his own master Na'daz, who was a master duelist, before spending the next few decades refining and perfecting every form?
His master has ZERO feats, and there is no evidence of skill mastery in any fight he did. He still got shitcanned by a trainee Bane in spite of all of that supposed mastery. If he was so skilled why didn't he do better, rely on trickery, and ultimately die to a student. Lol.
Unless Tinn can generate a powerful enough force attack to destroy a temple, then he is not "sending Kas'im flying."
You mean if Tiin can use the latent force powers of a nexus (which almost caused him to faint) to do his dirty work instead of his raw skill to beat a weak opponent? 👆
Bane's demonstrations of speed were pretty much the exact same on Korriban and Lehon, despite how much stronger in the Dark Side Lehon was. Evidently Lehon's strength in the Dark Side was not affecting their speed in any tangible way.
All of Bane's speed feats are either of him boosted in some way by orbalisks or a nexus. Try again. Bane could barely move fast enough to catch slow drain drops and block them, he was slower and weaker in DOE. He couldn't duplicate the same feats he did then. If it affected Bane i,e made him faster but he can't replicate the same effect elsewhere, chances are the nexus aided him unless otherwise stated.
And WTF do you mean Tinn matched Windu's speed? Do you mean in a sparring match where they weren't going all out? And even if that were the case, then what the **** happened in the Chancellor's office on Coruscant?!!
Practicing with the 2nd greatest Jedi >>> Beating a weak Sith school teacher
Lehon had absolutely no impact on his speed, so it likely didn't have as large an impact on his other abilities as you seem to be intent on claiming. The Darth Bane trilogy has numerous quotes where the characters gain power from external sources, find me one quote that mentions a character gaining power from just being on a nexus and I might take you seriously.
Its simple observation from the fact Bane was slower, weaker, and altogether never replicated any of his feats from when he had the Orbalisks or was younger in POD. He even said "Age had robbed him of his power", not that he was very skilled or good to begin with. He deflected slow moving drain drops when he was old and weak, and ran kilometers in no time at all on Korriban nexus. If you can't see the discrepancy fanboy, then concede.
And for your last point:
Originally posted by carthage
That's all cute and everything, but Kas'sim has no relevant feats or accolades apart from that sole quote that Bane gave which has no bearing as Kas'sim didn't fight anyone other than Bane.
You dismissing all of this just because Kas'im lacks exposure and because you hate Bane is ****ing ignorant and stupid.
Originally posted by carthage
So he was still a trainee by a few days, thanks for proving me right 👆
Originally posted by carthage
And Kas'sim knowingly held back from Trainee Bane, had a tremendous advantage, was more skilled and still lost to a Bane whose best feat was breaking crates and tents. So much for all that immense skill, huh? Kas'sim pulled out all of the stops and still lost to trainee Bane. Tiin at least proved he could hold his own, and showcased numerous other feats that Kas'sim lacks. Try again
And what other feats has Tinn shown aside from a sparring match that was only a couple of panels long?
Originally posted by carthage
His master has ZERO feats, and there is no evidence of skill mastery in any fight he did. He still got shitcanned by a trainee Bane in spite of all of that supposed mastery. If he was so skilled why didn't he do better, rely on trickery, and ultimately die to a student. Lol.
And once again, Bane by that point had numerous accolades referring to his immense strength in the force and his mastery of the Dark Side, and had basically just been promoted to the Sith ****ing Council.
Originally posted by carthage
You mean if Tiin can use the latent force powers of a nexus (which almost caused him to faint) to do his dirty work instead of his raw skill to beat a weak opponent? 👆
Originally posted by carthage
All of Bane's speed feats are either of him boosted in some way by orbalisks or a nexus. Try again. Bane could barely move fast enough to catch slow drain drops and block them, he was slower and weaker in DOE. He couldn't duplicate the same feats he did then. If it affected Bane i,e made him faster but he can't replicate the same effect elsewhere, chances are the nexus aided him unless otherwise stated.
Originally posted by carthage
Practicing with the 2nd greatest Jedi >>> Beating a weak Sith school teacher
Originally posted by carthage
Its simple observation from the fact Bane was slower, weaker, and altogether never replicated any of his feats from when he had the Orbalisks or was younger in POD. He even said "Age had robbed him of his power", not that he was very skilled or good to begin with. He deflected slow moving drain drops when he was old and weak, and ran kilometers in no time at all on Korriban nexus. If you can't see the discrepancy fanboy, then concede.
Bane notes that age had only effected him marginally by this point.
Originally posted by carthage
And for your last point:
Why don't we observe your bias and hatred to the point of irrationality shall we?
You claim Bane, Revan, and Vitiate are all weak despite this orgy of quotes:
“even his enormous command of the Force”-Darth Bane
Source: Path of Destruction
“The Sith'ari will be free of limits.
The Sith'ari will lead the Sith and destroy them.
The Sith'ari will raise the Sith from death and make them stronger than before.”-Darth Bane
Sources: Book of the Sith and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
“If the dark side’s most powerful master can capture the ultimate secret, the Sith will never die.”-Darth Bane
Source: Dynasty of Evil
“through the dark side he had access to near-infinite power”-Darth Bane
Source: Dynasty of Evil
"The Bane trilogy focused on Darth Bane, one of the most powerful Sith Lords who ever lived.”-Darth Bane
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."-Revan
Source: KOTOR II
"The Jedi's command of and connection to the Force was unlike anything Scourge had sensed in anyone else. Even though Revan was constantly drugged, it was impossible not to sense his strength."-Revan
Source: SWTOR: Revan
"Revan obviously focused on Revan, another incredibly powerful Force user."-Revan
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
"He was an incredibly powerful Jedi."-Revan
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
"The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen."-Vitiate
Source: SWTOR
"The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed."-Vitiate
Source: SWTORE
"unlike Revan or Bane, he isn’t one of the most powerful individuals in the universe."-Bane and Revan
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
"As much as I loved writing about all-powerful Sith [Darth Bane & Vitiate] and Jedi [Revan]”-Bane, Revan, and Vitiate
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
In light of these quotes, it's pretty much canon that Bane, Revan, and Vitiate are all incredibly powerful, and it's not even remotely arguable. By ignoring this orgy of quotes and continuing to write off these characters as weak because you hate them, you have proven yourself to be immensely biased to the point of complete irrationality.
If you cannot accept this one simple truth, then you have lost all credibility and are confirmed as the sad sack of shit that not only myself, but many other people on here believe you to be.
He defeated Na'daz long before his prime, and Na'daz was "particularly adept in the arts of lightsaber combat," adept meaning very skilled or proficient at something. Since then he has mastered and perfected every move and maneuver of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, as well as mastering and familiarizing himself with the usage of numerous weapons. The very well informed and intelligent Darth Bane considered the possibility that Kas'im may have been the greatest duelist who ever lived for ****s sake.You dismissing all of this just because Kas'im lacks exposure and because you hate Bane is ****ing ignorant and stupid.
Irrelevant nonsense. Either post feats or gtfo. Kas'sim's implied mastery means nothing.
He had practically been promoted to the ****ing Sith Council by that point!!!
He was still a trainee and you admitted it 👆
You mean the nexus with no quotes suggesting it affected Bane's abilities, and the absolute zero effect it had on Bane's speed?
Sure it did Bane was weak as hell without any special means to mod his force abilities. Like i said compare breaking boxes and breaking tents to lifting a rock and breaking a pillar, Bane even felt the nexus when his weak bald ass almost fainted.
Quinlan Vos sparred with Mace Windu, yet got completely shitstomped by a duelist below Windu's level. Sparring doesn't mean shit!!!
Bane lost to a featless Sirrak and would've died to Raskta had he not had his precious armor on. 👆 Please provide me relevant dueling feats for Kas'sim that put him on Tiin's ability to hold his own against Windu (the 2nd greatest Jedi of his era)
Bane notes that the raindrop feat was something that was beyond his reach at the beginning of ROT. In DOE, Zannah pretty much confirms that Bane was fighting faster than she had ever seen him before, and she fought him while he was bloodlusted and covered in Orbalisks. This means that Bane was faster in DOE than he was in ROT or POD. If his speed had decreased very marginally, then this implies that his prime in speed was a couple of years before DOE.Bane notes that age had only effected him marginally by this point.
His speed didn't increase, and his rain feat isn't as impressive as Tiin appearing in three places at once/deflecting three blaster bolt volleys. Try again. Not only is he slower than Tiin he is weaker, Tiin has smashed a droids head. Bane was slower and weaker by his own admission. Stop backpedaling.
This means that Bane was faster in DOE than he was in ROT or POD. If his speed had decreased very marginally, then this implies that his prime in speed was a couple of years before DOE.
It doesn't mean anything as its an inferior feat because all of his other feats are when he was boosted as per usual lol. There is no way to gauge his speed, other than to assume he's slower by virtue of his own words, and because of the fact all of his other speed feats occur under the dubious circumstance of being nexus feats. Zannah's observations are meaningless, as he also held back and there is no quantifiable speed feat to compare them too in his past
Bane notes that age had only effected him marginally by this point.
Which was why he got his ass handed to him in a duel with his less skilled apprentice who trips over graves
Tiin wins
Originally posted by carthage
Irrelevant nonsense. Either post feats or gtfo. Kas'sim's implied mastery means nothing.
Originally posted by carthage
He was still a trainee and you admitted it 👆
Originally posted by carthage
Sure it did Bane was weak as hell without any special means to mod his force abilities. Like i said compare breaking boxes and breaking tents to lifting a rock and breaking a pillar, Bane even felt the nexus when his weak bald ass almost fainted.
You calling Bane weak pretty much contradicts canon when there are a bunch of quotes to the contrary.
As a side note I love how that was the one part of my last post that you failed to respond to. It really proves your bias, ignorance, disregard for canon statements, inability to grasp simple concepts, and your own cowardice when faced with a point/insult/accusation you can not effectively refute or counter.
Originally posted by carthage
Bane lost to a featless Sirrak and would've died to Raskta had he not had his precious armor on. 👆 Please provide me relevant dueling feats for Kas'sim that put him on Tiin's ability to hold his own against Windu (the 2nd greatest Jedi of his era)
Originally posted by carthage
His speed didn't increase, and his rain feat isn't as impressive as Tiin appearing in three places at once/deflecting three blaster bolt volleys. Try again. Not only is he slower than Tiin he is weaker, Tiin has smashed a droids head. Bane was slower and weaker by his own admission. Stop backpedaling.
****ing clones have smashed battle droids heads, it's not that impressive. Bane on the other hand tore through a durasteel door while drugged.
Originally posted by carthage
Which was why he got his ass handed to him in a duel with his less skilled apprentice who trips over graves
Originally posted by carthage
Its only trolling if Emperor cries and breaks his Bane action figures
sometimes it's really hard to resist calling on your idiocy carthage. emperor presents facts, evidence and quotes yet you remain as stubborn as a mule, Bane is a much better duelist/force user than the ENTIRE team that was sent against Sidious(excluding Mace because Vaapad) Saesee tiin is powerful i'll give you that but he is MILES/KILOMETERS ****ing DECADES away from ever being on Bane's level. So please stop making Biased filled assumptions or decisions about characters you dislike, just to 'troll' people, its not funny, its not pushing anyones buttons, its simply foolish and childish so please grow up, we all have to.
And just for emphasis:
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Why don't we observe your bias and hatred to the point of irrationality shall we?You claim Bane, Revan, and Vitiate are all weak despite this orgy of quotes:
“even his enormous command of the Force”-Darth Bane
Source: Path of Destruction“The Sith'ari will be free of limits.
The Sith'ari will lead the Sith and destroy them.
The Sith'ari will raise the Sith from death and make them stronger than before.”-Darth Bane
Sources: Book of the Sith and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia“If the dark side’s most powerful master can capture the ultimate secret, the Sith will never die.”-Darth Bane
Source: Dynasty of Evil“through the dark side he had access to near-infinite power”-Darth Bane
Source: Dynasty of Evil"The Bane trilogy focused on Darth Bane, one of the most powerful Sith Lords who ever lived.”-Darth Bane
Source: Drew Karpyshyn"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."-Revan
Source: KOTOR II"The Jedi's command of and connection to the Force was unlike anything Scourge had sensed in anyone else. Even though Revan was constantly drugged, it was impossible not to sense his strength."-Revan
Source: SWTOR: Revan"Revan obviously focused on Revan, another incredibly powerful Force user."-Revan
Source: Drew Karpyshyn"He was an incredibly powerful Jedi."-Revan
Source: Drew Karpyshyn"The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen."-Vitiate
Source: SWTOR"The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed."-Vitiate
Source: SWTORE"unlike Revan or Bane, he isn’t one of the most powerful individuals in the universe."-Bane and Revan
Source: Drew Karpyshyn"As much as I loved writing about all-powerful Sith [Darth Bane & Vitiate] and Jedi [Revan]”-Bane, Revan, and Vitiate
Source: Drew KarpyshynIn light of these quotes, it's pretty much canon that Bane, Revan, and Vitiate are all incredibly powerful, and it's not even remotely arguable. By ignoring this orgy of quotes and continuing to write off these characters as weak because you hate them, you have proven yourself to be immensely biased to the point of complete irrationality.
If you cannot accept this one simple truth, then you have lost all credibility and are confirmed as the sad sack of shit that not only myself, but many other people on here believe you to be.