Originally posted by Lord Stark
Nope. The Imperator and the Tector were still around as of the Clone Wars. Venators main batteries were comparable to that of an ISD anyway.
And Venators are smaller and have fewer guns to make up for it.
Sure, proper ISDs were introduced around the time of the very end of the Clone Wars, but they're few in number for some time. Against the Vong, this means their ships of the line will outmatch the Republic ships of the line for a good while.
And the Vong has more big ships. They had a significant number of Super Star Destroyer equivalents, plus of course one fully combat capable World Ship which has *no* equivalent or easy way to take out. It took an Executor-class converted into a giant suicide bomb to defeat... and the Old Republic has no Executor-class sized ships, or even near it.
Furthermore even at the height of the Empire there were only about 20,000 ISDs, the rest of the Empire's millions of warships were made up of the varying escort classes. And trust me the Empire has millions of warships considering that in ICS it states the CIS had millions of capital ships engaged in the outer rim seiges.
And you think the NR after gearing up for several years doesn't? Because the New Republic was building fleets for several years. The war lasted longer than the Clone Wars.
Why? The only reason the CIS ever struck Coruscant was because Sidious leaked secret hyperspace routes to the core worlds. [/B]
Because the Vong are a bigger threat than the CIS with bigger, badder ships and they managed to not just attack Coruscant in a raid like the CIS did but take it, and hold it for two years, half the war.
The Vong fought pitched battles for 4 years, including taking the most fortified planet in the galaxy. The CIS fought a more evasive war for 3. The Yuuzhan Vong don't need a sneaky route to it, they'll get their eventually, the problem is actually take it takes enough resources that it'll stall them out again and give the Republic time to mass more forces.
Originally posted by Q99
And Venators are smaller and have fewer guns to make up for it.Sure, proper ISDs were introduced around the time of the very end of the Clone Wars, but they're few in number for some time. Against the Vong, this means their ships of the line will outmatch the Republic ships of the line for a good while.
And the Vong has more big ships. They had a significant number of Super Star Destroyer equivalents, plus of course one fully combat capable World Ship which has *no* equivalent or easy way to take out. It took an Executor-class converted into a giant suicide bomb to defeat... and the Old Republic has no Executor-class sized ships, or even near it.
And you think the NR after gearing up for several years doesn't? Because the New Republic was building fleets for several years. The war lasted longer than the Clone Wars.
Because the Vong are a bigger threat than the CIS with bigger, badder ships and they managed to not just attack Coruscant in a raid like the CIS did but take it, and hold it for two years, half the war.
The Vong fought pitched battles for 4 years, including taking the most fortified planet in the galaxy. The CIS fought a more evasive war for 3. The Yuuzhan Vong don't need a sneaky route to it, they'll get their eventually, the problem is actually take it takes enough resources that it'll stall them out again and give the Republic time to mass more forces.
You make good points, regarding the Vong compared to the CIS, but a Republic, fresh from the Clone War, would have the edge, imo. Especially with a full Jedi order, possibly led by Obi-Wan, but including a full potential Anakin. Luke and Leia would probably be trained, as well.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
You make good points, regarding the Vong compared to the CIS, but a Republic, fresh from the Clone War, would have the edge, imo. Especially with a full Jedi order, possibly led by Obi-Wan, but including a full potential Anakin. Luke and Leia would probably be trained, as well.
Oh, I'm not saying they won't win, I believe they will (and probably while Like and Leia are still little kids!). I'm just saying the Vong have enough resources to get that far.
The Republic's larger fleet and army at the start will make up for their smaller ships, and new, bigger ships will continue to roll out. It'll be bloody for them early on, but at *some point* they're going to stall the Vong offensive.
The Vong and CIS are somewhat opposites in strategy, really- the CIS has great endurance due to how cheap it's forces are, but it loses bad in a stand-up fight, so once a quick win is out of the picture, they want to drag things out to try and get the Republic to give up via raids on the leadership and war werriness.
The Vong, on the flip side, has a massively powerful fleet out the gate, but are less good at replacing losses (small stuff like fighters can be replaced fast, but the big ships take longer to grow), so what they need to do is win the day as quickly as possible and should continue to try and land hammerblow after hammerblow. Go after Kuat, Kamino, worlds like that.
Really, it was a bad move of them to go for Coruscant. They'd have been better off trying to bypass it and go after more ship yards and such to lesson the galaxy's resource edge.
And they're going to make the same mistake here, Coruscant simply costs too much to take.
Q99 more or less summed up the advantages pretty well. The Vong probably have an advantage in firepower and fanaticism, but the Republic fields greater numbers, has a titanic industrial base, and is bolstered by the massed ranks of the Jedi order.
On the other hand, the Vong would be coming out of the gate fresh whereas the Republic and Jedi have exhausted themselves fighting a Pyrrhic battle with the CIS.
Originally posted by Q99
And Venators are smaller and have fewer guns to make up for it.
The main battery are the ISDs primary weapons though. Also the Venator has over four times the fighter compliment to make up for it.
Sure, proper ISDs were introduced around the time of the very end of the Clone Wars, but they're few in number for some time. Against the Vong, this means their ships of the line will outmatch the Republic ships of the line for a good while.
Considering the Republic won't be wasting time and resources on building a Death Star all of their industrial capacity can be shifted to pumping out ISDs and larger vessels. Also the KDY sector fleets still had warships that outgunned ISDs.
And the Vong has more big ships. They had a significant number of Super Star Destroyer equivalents, plus of course one fully combat capable World Ship which has *no* equivalent or easy way to take out. It took an Executor-class converted into a giant suicide bomb to defeat... and the Old Republic has no Executor-class sized ships, or even near it.
How many? Because they still had several 8km Mandators, and the 12 km Mandator-III was likely close to production.
And you think the NR after gearing up for several years doesn't? Because the New Republic was building fleets for several years. The war lasted longer than the Clone Wars.
Because the Vong are a bigger threat than the CIS with bigger, badder ships and they managed to not just attack Coruscant in a raid like the CIS did but take it, and hold it for two years, half the war.
The CIS most certainly could have taken Coruscant. That's what the Malevolence was designed for.
The Vong fought pitched battles for 4 years, including taking the most fortified planet in the galaxy. The CIS fought a more evasive war for 3. The Yuuzhan Vong don't need a sneaky route to it, they'll get their eventually, the problem is actually take it takes enough resources that it'll stall them out again and give the Republic time to mass more forces.
Against a Galaxy divided. The New Republic didn't have millions of warships and trillions of soldiers.
Also Mace Windu foresaw the fall of Coruscant by the Vong and they wouldn't make the mistake of diverting the Home Fleet to the Outer Rim as they did in the Clone Wars.
Also the CIS did have the capacity to take Coruscant, they simply did not. The Battle also lasted far longer than the Vong siege considering Fleets from the Outer Rim had time to arrive, meanwhile the Vong invasion Fleets from Kuat and other Core Sectors didn't have time to arrive.
Also when has the New Republic ever been cited at having millions of warships?
Originally posted by Lord Starkthe CIS was losing the land battle on coruscant.
The main battery are the ISDs primary weapons though. Also the Venator has over four times the fighter compliment to make up for it.Considering the Republic won't be wasting time and resources on building a Death Star all of their industrial capacity can be shifted to pumping out ISDs and larger vessels. Also the KDY sector fleets still had warships that outgunned ISDs.
How many? Because they still had several 8km Mandators, and the 12 km Mandator-III was likely close to production.
And how many ships do they have?
The CIS most certainly could have taken Coruscant. That's what the Malevolence was designed for.
Against a Galaxy divided. The New Republic didn't have millions of warships and trillions of soldiers.
Also Mace Windu foresaw the fall of Coruscant by the Vong and they wouldn't make the mistake of diverting the Home Fleet to the Outer Rim as they did in the Clone Wars.
Also the CIS did have the capacity to take Coruscant, they simply did not. The Battle also lasted far longer than the Vong siege considering Fleets from the Outer Rim had time to arrive, meanwhile the Vong invasion Fleets from Kuat and other Core Sectors didn't have time to arrive.
Also when has the New Republic ever been cited at having millions of warships?
The main battery are the ISDs primary weapons though. Also the Venator has over four times the fighter compliment to make up for it.
And the fighter complement takes away from other systems more. You do need a couple Venators to match up to one ISD.
How many? Because they still had several 8km Mandators, and the 12 km Mandator-III was likely close to production.
They had at least two classes in service- the 'Dreadnaught Analogs' and the Kor Chokk Grand Cruiser. Exact numbers unknown, but both were seen on multiple occasions.
There were also the Worldships, of which there was 12. One of them was fully combat capable, Domain Hul, but the others were still used as giant fighter bases or sometimes landed and used as stationary fortresses.
Now, considering there were only 7 Mandators in service...
Against a Galaxy divided. The New Republic didn't have millions of warships and trillions of soldiers.
They really weren't all that divided, and even the other divisions (small next to the Republic) contributed to the fighting, and then the Galactic Alliance united everything. And what makes you think they didn't, over 4 years of war and recruitment from across the very same galaxy and with the same industry the OR had?
Originally posted by Q99
And the fighter complement takes away from other systems more. You do need a couple Venators to match up to one ISD.They had at least two classes in service- the 'Dreadnaught Analogs' and the Kor Chokk Grand Cruiser. Exact numbers unknown, but both were seen on multiple occasions.
There were also the Worldships, of which there was 12. One of them was fully combat capable, Domain Hul, but the others were still used as giant fighter bases or sometimes landed and used as stationary fortresses.
Now, considering there were only 7 Mandators in service...
There were 7 Mandator-Is because they were designed for regional defence. The Mandator-II which was for long range missions would have been deployed at a larger rate. Not to mention the other massive battlecruisers the Republic employed.
They really weren't all that divided, and even the other divisions (small next to the Republic) contributed to the fighting, and then the Galactic Alliance united everything. And what makes you think they didn't, over 4 years of war and recruitment from across the very same galaxy and with the same industry the OR had?
Didn't Coruscant get hit because of the incompetence of their Chief of Staff? The Jedi will not make such a mistake, especially considering Windu's vision.