If you have nothing to contribute, then don't post at all. You clearly have no knowledge about the character.
Originally posted by Ize19
Okay, can we put this notion that Wolverine is not a top tier fighter to rest now? I mean, honestly, it really does get tiring seeing that posted again and again. Listen, if you haven't seen enough to make you believe that Wolverine is a Top Tier martial artist, then how about I show you he is ?Okay, so your main worry is that Wolverine's physical abilities give him an edge that the other top tier's don't have, correct? Well, here we have him fighting against Domina, the leader of the Neo, a group of superhumans. She has already dominated Sabretooth, killed Sinister, and handled an X-Men team composed of Thunderbird, Psylocke, Cicilia Reyes, Colossus, Rogue, and Nightcrawler. Then Wolverine comes onto the scene, and does this:
Here he goes up against 5000 Hand ninja, along with Elektra (who's been edited out, but definitely did her fair share,) and decimates them, without getting scratched:
If you think that the lack of a torn up uniform isn't evidence of not getting injured, then check out how this artist drew Wolverine when he was taking while he got:
Here Wolverine takes on both Shogun and Azrael, one having, according to Wolverine:
"move like the Hand, and speed like the Gorgon"
http://yfrog.com/6wwolverinev2ch05727jAnd the other being the thousands of years old Angel of Death. Wolverine deals with both handily:
http://yfrog.com/3dwolverinev2ch06123j
http://yfrog.com/9gwolverinev2ch06125j
http://yfrog.com/1awolverinev2ch06127jHere Wolverine faces off against, and forces onto the defensive, an Iron Fist more powerful and skilled than Danny Rand (Pre-Upgrade,):
http://img263.imageshack.us/i/ironfistandwolverine041.jpg/
But of course, who you can beat isn't everything (Otherwise I would have posted more scansof Ogun, Shingen, Stick, Shang Chi, Daredevil, and Captain America.) So here are some instances of Wolverine's fighting knowledge.
In this scan, we learn about Wolverine's knowledge of "nerve clusters, crucial pressure points, where a blow can instantly paralyze someone, or kill."
http://yfrog.com/0ywolverinels0117j
It makes sense he'd know these, as he can "incapacitate, mobilize... maim and cripple a hundred different ways":
http://img299.imageshack.us/i/mcpch11408.jpg/
We see him put that knowledge to use here, against a brick in another dimension:
http://yfrog.com/1rloganpotw39j
And here we see him knee Captain America in the thigh, giving him a "Femoral artery pseudo-aneurism" that sends him to the hospital (though not immediately):
http://yfrog.com/eswoch0041213j
And of course, his most impressive to date, crumbling a chi-amping brick who "hits like the Thing, if the Thing was a ninth degree black belt and could kick you in the face ":
http://yfrog.com/69wolverinemdch0210j
http://yfrog.com/08wolverinemdch0212j
(The actual feat)http://yfrog.com/j4wolverinemd041617jYou can also consider his knowledge and ability with joint locks. How about a small sampling for that?
http://yfrog.com/3dwolverinev2ch00306j
http://yfrog.com/j9uxmch39714j
http://yfrog.com/3vuxmch22813j
http://yfrog.com/0cuxmch17313jWolverine is dangerous, whether he can use his hands, or not:
http://yfrog.com/emwolverinev2ch03917j
http://yfrog.com/0juxmch15211j
http://yfrog.com/6wuxmch27205jWolverine is also capable of attacking in several directions simultaneously:
http://yfrog.com/jkwolverinev1ch1520708j
http://yfrog.com/j4wolverinev2ch0092021j
http://yfrog.com/bgwolverinev2ch02008jOh yeah, and he can convince Hand ninja and Hydra soldiers, that he's Captain America - while using a trash can lid for a shield:
http://yfrog.com/j9wolverinev1ch12706j
http://yfrog.com/b9wolverinev1ch12707j
http://yfrog.com/2pwolverinev1ch12708jHonestly, I don't know what more the guy has to do to prove his martial arts ability to you, but if there is anything, let me know, cause he definitely has more. Otherwise, it would be nice to be able to go on the forums again without people constantly trying to downgrade Wolverine's skills, just because he's a mutant.
Haters gonna hate.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
[B]I was perfectly calm 😠Current Logan has still all the advantages he needs for this fight, including the skill one. Beating Batroc - even with trouble - is a good showing. .
After all the times he's stalemated Cap, definitely.
Even if Lord Rand managed to beat him with even less trouble. 😛
[E]
Originally posted by riv6672
Logan. Fighting skills. Lol.
If Wolverine has martial skills, which he does, they've deteriorated greatly. His usual style is hack, slash, absorb punishment when he could dodge blows.
Occasionally a writer recalls he has skills then has him do something well above his usual skill set.
Dont tell me a skillful Wolverine is the norm. It isnt.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And Overlord Wade outperformed them both, casually dealing with the Leaper 🙁 Sigh. Literally farted and almost killed Taskmaster, too.Daniel and Logan can't compare.
Ostrander giving Rand his costume change an right after Wade makes fun of his ballet slippers was pretty hilarious.
@riv
Prior to losing HF, he didn't really need to dodge. He didn't want to, even - as receiving damage actually made him feel better about offing bad guys (as revealed in one of his team-ups with Spider-Man and Fallen Son). Focusing on offense was all he needed, since he could tank almost anything thrown at him.
However, without his power, against an opponent such as Cage... he won't think twice before dodging if necessary. Full capacity rule means he's going to be fighting at the best of his ability. With that, and significant speed and agility advantages, Cage is done for.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWSo you're saying that Logan loses this fight badly?
@rivPrior to losing HF, he didn't really need to dodge. He didn't want to, even - as receiving damage actually made him feel better about offing bad guys (as revealed in one of his team-ups with Spider-Man and Fallen Son). Focusing on offense was all he needed, since he could tank almost anything thrown at him.
However, without his power, against an opponent such as Cage... he won't think twice before dodging if necessary. Full capacity rule means he's going to be fighting at the best of his ability. With that, and significant speed and agility advantages, Cage is done for.
I'm pretty sure this thread's about run its course.
Still going with my original opinion. I'm not a Wolverine hater, he's a great character, just not a great fighter.
And yeah, thats just my opinion, but that opinion's based on the comics i've read over the years.
Not asking anyone to change their minds, i know thats not happening.
Originally posted by riv6672It's not that logan's not a great martial artist, it's just that he only show his skill about 2 percent of the time and the other 98 percent of the time he just turns into a brawler. With that said, Logan loses by virtue of being the guy that keeps getting butt phucked in his current battles with people.
I'm pretty sure this thread's about run its course.
Still going with my original opinion. I'm not a Wolverine hater, he's a great character, just not a great fighter.
And yeah, thats just my opinion, but that opinion's based on the comics i've read over the years.
Not asking anyone to change their minds, i know thats not happening.
Originally posted by deathslash
So you're saying that Logan loses this fight badly?
He wins without any effort, more like.
Originally posted by riv6672
I'm pretty sure this thread's about run its course.
Still going with my original opinion. I'm not a Wolverine hater, he's a great character, just not a great fighter.
And yeah, thats just my opinion, but that opinion's based on the comics i've read over the years.
Not asking anyone to change their minds, i know thats not happening.
It's fine - you're entitled to your opinion, naturally.
Originally posted by riv6672
That only makes sense.
But it doesnt put him on a Shang Chi, Iron Fist level.
Just my take on it.
Aside from the sparring with Daniel that DS mentioned, adamantium-less Wolverine has beat Shang-Chi, without using the claws for the most of their fight, even.
Originally posted by riv6672
Thanks, i've been really bitchy in the this, Thing/Atlas, and Hammerless Thor/Ghost Rider.
I dont mind folks saying character A beats B, but when they claim it all comes down to just strength, or when martial skills get touted well above what they are, well, like i said, i've been bitchy! 😬
It's not just skill.
Speed is a big factor, too. Wolverine strikes faster than the human eye can follow (as stated/shown on panel numerous times). He will draw first blood... and, because of the devastating damage the claws are capable of, direct hit could end Cage. Logan's one-shotted Thing, Lizard, Wrecker... even the Hulk recently... he can definitely do the same to Luke.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWIf Logan's so fast, why was Batroc so casually owning him? Why was he afraid of a random thug with a gun? while speed is a big factor, you're acting like logan's speed advantage is so big that Cage wouldn't even be able to react to Logan's attacks. Let's put some things in perspective; Cage has tagged and reacted to attacks from Ironfist, Green Goblin, Sabretooth, Spider-man, Venom, Taskmaster, Steel Serpent, Bullseye, Living Laser, Mister X and many more. Does logan have a speed advantage? Yes. Is Logan so fast that Cage won't be able to dodge to the attack, counter attack, or block the attack? No.
He wins without any effort, more like.It's fine - you're entitled to your opinion, naturally.
Aside from the sparring with Daniel that DS mentioned, adamantium-less Wolverine has beat Shang-Chi, without using the claws for the most of their fight, even.
It's not just skill.
Speed is a big factor, too. Wolverine strikes faster than the human eye can follow (as stated/shown on panel numerous times). He will draw first blood... and, because of the devastating damage the claws are capable of, direct hit could end Cage. Logan's one-shotted Thing, Lizard, Wrecker... even the Hulk recently... he can definitely do the same to Luke.
All my bitching aside, i'm not saying Wolverine wont win.
I'm saying Cage can, too.
I'm not saying Wolverine has no skill, i'm saying its not as great as people are saying.
I'm not saying Wolverine cant cut Cage, i'm saying it wont be as simple as cutting a regular human.
I'm not arguing the scans, i'm sticking to what i said about writers having Wolverine occasionally pull out skills well above his norm.
I'm willing to admit these things, it just kind of irks me that most people wont even give the possibility of a Cage win any credence.
Good thread though, i've actually enjoyed it or i wouldnt have gotten so into it!
@slash
Because Batroc is pretty fast himself (he's stalemated classic Fantomex, even). Either of them surpass Cage in that area.
Thug held the handgun next to his head. Much like Trinity vs. Agent "Dodge this" scene from the first Matrix movie - what the hell he was supposed to do? Logan got himself in that unfortunate position thanks to unfriendly neighbourhood Spider-Ock distracting him, btw.
Luke's also had not-so-stellar showings, like against standard, symbioteless Scorpion or powerless Panther.
