Originally posted by quanchi112I do know what it would take for them to present aid to Gregor and I know they did not end in points so they didn't help. Gregor used pure strength to crush the Viper's skull.
So you don't know and are speculating but do say they could aid in the feat. Game, set, match.
Originally posted by NewjakI disagree and you're not sure so you disqualified your opinion when you admitted you didn't know.
I do know what it would take for them to present aid to Gregor and I know they did not end in points so they didn't help. Gregor used pure strength to crush the Viper's skull.
Originally posted by quanchi112I once again think you are missing the key difference between durability and regen.
He is recovering at a superhuman rate. Same goes for him surviving the crash, tanking the eight stun blasts, sport.
Regen is someone sustaining the injury then healing it.
Durability is preventing the injury from happening.
Kirk wasn't able to injure Khan enough for him to regenerate any serious injury.
In fact the only time we see Khan sustain any real injury was when Spock broke his arm and he did not instant regen from that, along with the braining Spock gave him the metal object.
If he really did have any sort of real battle capable regen abilities he would have healed from those wounds and got away.
Originally posted by quanchi112That isn;t how it works. In order for the gauntlets to have helped I described what they needed to be. Gregor's gaunlet's didnlt have points.
I disagree and you're not sure so you disqualified your opinion when you admitted you didn't know.
I just looked at a picture of them. They don't have sharp points or any really points at the end.
He crushed the Viper's skull on pure strength Quan.
Originally posted by NewjakNo, I have it just fine.
I once again think you are missing the key difference between durability and regen.Regen is someone sustaining the injury then healing it.
Durability is preventing the injury from happening.
Kirk wasn't able to injure Khan enough for him to regenerate any serious injury.
In fact the only time we see Khan sustain any real injury was when Spock broke his arm and he did not instant regen from that, along with the braining Spock gave him the metal object.
If he really did have any sort of real battle capable regen abilities he would have healed from those wounds and got away.
He is recovering from the 8 stun blasts because if that wasn't the case his movement wouldn't be slowed.
Kirk wasn't able to injure him due to his superhuman recovery rate.
You can't just ignore everything that happened prior to such as the space crash which he bled from, nerve pinches, weapon strikes his face, and 8 stun blasts to sell your case.
Originally posted by quanchi112If I took a foam noodle and hit you with it
No, I have it just fine.He is recovering from the 8 stun blasts because if that wasn't the case his movement wouldn't be slowed.
Kirk wasn't able to injure him due to his superhuman recovery rate.
You can't just ignore everything that happened prior to such as the space crash which he bled from, nerve pinches, weapon strikes his face, and 8 stun blasts to sell your case.
I'm assuming you can take that kind of hit as most children can. Would you say the fact you are still standing is due to your great battlefield regeneration abilities or the fact the foam noodle just wasn't enough to hurt you enough to take you down?
FYI you can be stunned not injured and recover from it just fine without having a healing factor.
Once again why didn't his arm heal mid battle if he has such a good healing factor?
Originally posted by Newjak
That isn;t how it works. In order for the gauntlets to have helped I described what they needed to be. Gregor's gaunlet's didnlt have points.I just looked at a picture of them. They don't have sharp points or any really points at the end.
He crushed the Viper's skull on pure strength Quan.
I think he's (Quan) getting his ideas about the metal gloves/gauntlets from the books. IIRC, they assisted him in gouging the eyes and/or crushing the skull. It has been over a year since I read that chapter, however.
I think Quan is right, at least from the book's perspective. Since the MvF goes by screen feats, we have to defer to your opinion, here, Newjak.
However, I don't see Gregor lasting but about 5 seconds against Khan in this fight. He's (Khan) faster, much stronger, and much much more durable than Oberyn. 😐
Let's not forget that Spock was:
1. A Vulcan which puts his strength anywhere from 2-5 times stronger than a human (their feats vary from episode to episode in the shows...but, one strength feat I remember was from a very skinny Vulcan in Enterprise who picked up Archer with one-arm: puts Vulcans, even skinny ones, at about 2-3x stronger than peak human (real world, not comic book "Peak human"😉. IIRC, that stress, alone, is enough to snap a healthy man's arm at the elbow so even if we possessed the strength to do that, it would break our arms. I don't think that would apply to Gregor, though.
2. An enraged Vulcan which are some of the fiercest and most violent of the humanoid species in Star Trek.
I feel like I'm rambling, at this point. So, yeah, Khan is stronger than Gregor, imo. He used leverage at the eyes to finish the job. Khan didn't do that, at all, and he caused the head to explode much more violently. That makes me think he gets the edge in strength against Gregor.
Originally posted by NewjakI am saying regeneration comes into play when you survive a crash, Sprint throughout a city, take all kinds of damage in the battle as regeneration.
If I took a foam noodle and hit you with itI'm assuming you can take that kind of hit as most children can. Would you say the fact you are still standing is due to your great battlefield regeneration abilities or the fact the foam noodle just wasn't enough to hurt you enough to take you down?
FYI you can be stunned not injured and recover from it just fine without having a healing factor.
Once again why didn't his arm heal mid battle if he has such a good healing factor?
You want to ignore him wincing in pain during the nerve pinches, etc. And pretend the arm break is the only thing that hurt him or was going on.
He has superhuman healing and Spock didn't let up. All the continued attacks took their toll. I mean you have no real concept of how tired a human being is from a sprint alone. I listed all the various factors that took place here but just focus on the arm break and ignore the rest.
🙂
Originally posted by dadudemonOh I agree that Khan wins this fight. I've never thought different but Quan is throwing out terrible leaps in logic.
I think he's (Quan) getting his ideas about the metal gloves/gauntlets from the books. IIRC, they assisted him in gouging the eyes and/or crushing the skull. It has been over a year since I read that chapter, however.I think Quan is right, at least from the book's perspective. Since the MvF goes by screen feats, we have to defer to your opinion, here, Newjak.
However, I don't see Gregor lasting but about 5 seconds against Khan in this fight. He's (Khan) faster, much stronger, and much much more durable than Oberyn. 😐
Let's not forget that Spock was:
1. A Vulcan which puts his strength anywhere from 2-5 times stronger than a human (their feats vary from episode to episode in the shows...but, one strength feat I remember was from a very skinny Vulcan in Enterprise who picked up Archer with one-arm: puts Vulcans, even skinny ones, at about 2-3x stronger than peak human (real world, not comic book "Peak human"😉. IIRC, that stress, alone, is enough to snap a healthy man's arm at the elbow so even if we possessed the strength to do that, it would break our arms. I don't think that would apply to Gregor, though.
2. An enraged Vulcan which are some of the fiercest and most violent of the humanoid species in Star Trek.I feel like I'm rambling, at this point. So, yeah, Khan is stronger than Gregor, imo. He used leverage at the eyes to finish the job. Khan didn't do that, at all, and he caused the head to explode much more violently. That makes me think he gets the edge in strength against Gregor.
As for the book the Mountain grab's the Viper's head and pushes his gauntlet through the Dornish Prince's head. In that case I would say the Gauntlet would help as he is punching.
Originally posted by quanchi112The sprinting part is endurance.
I am saying regeneration comes into play when you survive a crash, Sprint throughout a city, take all kinds of damage in the battle as regeneration.You want to ignore him wincing in pain during the nerve pinches, etc. And pretend the arm break is the only thing that hurt him or was going on.
He has superhuman healing and Spock didn't let up. All the continued attacks took their toll. I mean you have no real concept of how tired a human being is from a sprint alone. I listed all the various factors that took place here but just focus on the arm break and ignore the rest.
🙂
And yes adding up multiple injuries can take it's toll but as far as we can tell he never sustained any major injury from the actions you described. Definitely nothing that a normal human wouldn't have been able to fight through if the situation called for it.
Originally posted by NewjakIt all has to do with recovery.
The sprinting part is endurance.And yes adding up multiple injuries can take it's toll but as far as we can tell he never sustained any major injury from the actions you described. Definitely nothing that a normal human wouldn't have been able to fight through if the situation called for it.
No human being could have fought for half as long as he did in the same set of circumstances. The nerve pinch kos humans very quickly. Dismissing the crash, jumping 98 feet, 8 stunner blasts, two nerve punches, the weapon smash to the face, sprinting right before the fight is being ridiculous.
I'd love to compete with you because you have no real concept of reality.
The feats Khan performed in this movie are so superhuman it is sickening.
Originally posted by quanchi112I take you weren't able to follow along with what I was trying to say. I'll take the blame as I should have spelled it out more to you.
It all has to do with recovery.No human being could have fought for half as long as he did in the same set of circumstances. The nerve pinch kos humans very quickly. Dismissing the crash, jumping 98 feet, 8 stunner blasts, two nerve punches, the weapon smash to the face, sprinting right before the fight is being ridiculous.
I'd love to compete with you because you have no real concept of reality.
The feats Khan performed in this movie are so superhuman it is sickening.
Khan is super human thanks to that super human ability he was able to do things normal humans couldn't do, but while the damage he sustained from it wasn't that bad.
The point I was trying to make is that the injuries Khan had we could see a normal human would be able to fight through. I would expect a tougher superhuman to be able to do better.
So all this talk about him needing super human regeneration to allow him to keep going isn't substantiated by anything. It's far more likely based on how we see him deal with actual visible injury in a fight with the broken arm and hit to the head that KOed him that is healing capabilities aren't going to save him if someone is actually strong enough to cause him actual injury.
Originally posted by NewjakSprinting well over 400 yards, two nerve pinches, 8 stunner blasts, machine to the face, survived crash landing, jumped 98 feet and then having your arm broken and you thought someone could easily have taken that better ?
I take you weren't able to follow along with what I was trying to say. I'll take the blame as I should have spelled it out more to you.Khan is super human thanks to that super human ability he was able to do things normal humans couldn't do, but while the damage he sustained from it wasn't that bad.
The point I was trying to make is that the injuries Khan had we could see a normal human would be able to fight through. I would expect a tougher superhuman to be able to do better.
So all this talk about him needing super human regeneration to allow him to keep going isn't substantiated by anything. It's far more likely based on how we see him deal with actual visible injury in a fight with the broken arm and hit to the head that KOed him that is healing capabilities aren't going to save him if someone is actually strong enough to cause him actual injury.
No human could fight through the two nerve pinches alone so you're wrong right there. Spock would crush any human fighter as well.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Lol get the **** out of here. Quan hasn't read the ****ing books.
Quan, is this true?
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. If it seems like someone got their idea from the book (to explain the informational disparity), I'll assume it was that rather than troll-y internet posturing.