Vitiate vs. Darth Caedus

Started by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ3 pages

Actually, Scourge as of SWTOR states that in his vision the trio was going to fail

If he can barely keep up with Revan and HoT, how is he going to be able to keep up with someone that moves as fast as Luke Skywalker? Caedus has superior speed feats to HoT. I wonder if he could outright blitz and kill Vitiate

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, Scourge as of SWTOR states that in his vision the trio was going to fail

That's not in the book when he experiences the vision. It could very well be a pessimistic conclusion ex post facto.

Yeah, it's kind of weird. His explanation of his vision on the whole in SWTOR is completely different than in Revan.

Yeah, which is why I think it's more likely that Scourge is making excuses for his last minute treachery at the time.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Vitiate mind rapes him and makes him commit suicide. Vitiate for the stomp.

Seems like a possibility

Originally posted by carthage
He's on neutral ground with no prep. There'd better be a precedent for him "mind raping" force users without prep or a nexus. Or you're all just spouting bullshit theories, he of course has a plethora of other force powers to use though.

No more baseless prep bullshit please.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Drew did say Vitiate needed prep for mind****.

Some people will never learn.

Exactly when did Drew made that claim? (Since he also pointed out that he wasn't aware of the official capabilities of Emperor Vitiate in the matters of telepathy at the time of making this claim)

Official information has more value then personal opinion of an author by the way and it doesn't supports Drew's opinion.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Regardless, I doubt a barrage on Caedus's mind is something he'd be able to keep up in such a high intensity confrontation.

Why not?

Do you think it was possible to break Revan and Hero of Tython? Yet, Emperor Vitiate broke them.

Originally posted by carthage
Caedus is likely faster on neutral ground, Luke moves at sub light speeds and matched Palpatine's speed. So Caedus has a speed advantage over Vitiate. Not to mention comparable force power.

Caedus doesn't have comparable Force-powers.

Also, Emperor Vitiate responded really well to Revan and Hero of Tython in battles - both are very fast.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Revan had a shot at beating Vitiate. Obviously not for a majority, but there was still a chance of him emerging victorious.

Alone? No.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's not in the book when he experiences the vision. It could very well be a pessimistic conclusion ex post facto.

It's in the book after he'd experienced the visions. I take it as him understanding that the futures where Revan won were unrealistically ever going to occur, or just a flat out "not gonna happen". For a comparison, Jacen saw visions of himself fighting and killing Luke but I seriously doubt that was a decent possibility.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, which is why I think it's more likely that Scourge is making excuses for his last minute treachery at the time.

watch?v=0Vrn6DXegOs

Parts of the video have Scourge's thoughts on his vision. Interpret it as you wish.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, Scourge as of SWTOR states that in his vision the trio was going to fail

Scourge first saw a vision of failure of Revan, Meetra and himself against Emperor, while resting in a cave (hideout) along side Revan and Meetra. This vision demoralized him and he eventually decided to not take chance.

In addition, it is explicitly mentioned that Emperor Vitiate would have defeated the trio of Revan, Meetra and Scourge:

Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's in the book after he'd experienced the visions. I take it as him understanding that the futures where Revan won were unrealistically ever going to occur, or just a flat out "not gonna happen". For a comparison, Jacen saw visions of himself fighting and killing Luke but I seriously doubt that was a decent possibility.

But that doesn't jive with Scourge dismissing the notion out of hand in TOR. No one's saying that he, Revan, and Surik would have definitely killed Vitiate in Revan had events played, just that it was a potential outcome. The more probable outcome, Scourge determined, was that someone else would kill Vitiate. All that proves is that the Hero of Tython stood a better chance of killing Vitiate than did Revan, not that Revan's chances were slim to nihl.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's in the book after he'd experienced the visions. I take it as him understanding that the futures where Revan won were unrealistically ever going to occur, or just a flat out "not gonna happen". For a comparison, Jacen saw visions of himself fighting and killing Luke but I seriously doubt that was a decent possibility.

👆

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But that doesn't jive with Scourge dismissing the notion out of hand in TOR. No one's saying that he, Revan, and Surik would have definitely killed Vitiate in Revan had events played, just that it was a potential outcome. The more probable outcome, Scourge determined, was that someone else would kill Vitiate. All that proves is that the Hero of Tython stood a better chance of killing Vitiate than did Revan, not that Revan's chances were slim to nihl.

Well idk, Scourge seems to make it pretty clear in the above video that he saw Revan and the Exile losing and that they lacked the power to beat Vitiate. So I guess the other way of taking it is that the final vision wasn't just a possibility, but something that absolutely was going to happen. Akin to the prophecy of the Chosen One.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well idk, Scourge seems to make it pretty clear in the above video that he saw Revan and the Exile losing and that they lacked the power to beat Vitiate. So I guess the other way of taking it is that the final vision wasn't just a possibility, but something that absolutely was going to happen. Akin to the prophecy of the Chosen One.

?

The Force washed over him in a wave, and a million possible futures flickered through his mind simultaneously. In some the Emperor was no more; in others he had transformed the entire galaxy into an empty wasteland. He saw both Revan’s triumph and defeat in the throne room; he saw variations of his own life and death played out over and over in every conceivable way, shape, and form.

He had to choose, but there was no way to know which was the most likely outcome, or what actions of his would lead to which results. Revan had said visions could guide the Jedi, but for Scourge they brought nothing but confusion.

The moment passed and the universe began to move again, though everything seemed to be happening in slow motion. Revan and Meetra stepped forward, ready to initiate the final confrontation. Scourge knew he had to act now; he had to make his choice.

In a sudden moment of clarity he saw the Emperor lying defeated at the feet of a powerful Jedi … but that Jedi was neither Revan nor Meetra. And the Sith Lord knew what he had to do.

Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause.

Scourge considers Vitiate's defeat at Revan's hands at least one of "a million possible futures." All his decision proves is that Scourge concluded that the best chance of defeating Vitiate was the unidentified powerful Jedi (whom, one assumes, is the Hero of Tython). Either way, Revan had the means to defeat Vitiate in the throne room, though to what degree that was the likely outcome is up for debate. The bottom line, though, is that it was still a potential outcome.

No, he differentiates his final vision as being a 'moment of clarity'. I find it likely it was different from the other ones, not a mere possibility but a true prophecy. The actual vision itself is different from how its described in the book. Scourges more detailed description of it has him point blank say that he saw Revan and the Exile lose to Vitiate in the final vision.

The bottom line, though, is that Scourge identified Vitiate's defeat at Revan's hands a possibility.

You can mangle the semantics all you like, but the only interpretation that fits with everything is (as usual) mine. Scourge says it was a possibility; that doesn't change because he ended up opting for the Hero of Tython.

It's not really that Revan can't do what the HoT did, it's more likely that no one would be powerful enough to stop Vitiate at that time. I will acknowledge that Vitiate has probably grown more powerful in the time since then, however.

I also thought of it sort of as a prophecy, and even if like Palpatine was in that era, only the Hero of Tython could defeat Vitiate because the Force demanded such. Hence why Revan and friends were said to have lost anyway.

That's an interesting theory. It may even be true. But the only real "cosmic prophecy" in the Star Wars mythology is that of the Chosen One. The Hero of Tython is on the next tier down, along with other great era-defining heroes like Luke. But the only prophesied messiah who really matters on a cosmic level is Anakin Skywalker.

Of course, he is the central figure in the entire saga.
Everyone else is just a backdrop, including Vitiate.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The bottom line, though, is that Scourge identified Vitiate's defeat at Revan's hands a possibility.

You can mangle the semantics all you like, but the only interpretation that fits with everything is (as usual) mine. Scourge says it was a possibility; that doesn't change because he ended up opting for the Hero of Tython.