Like this is any better.
Originally posted by Sith Master XAnakin was supposed to be conveying romantic interest. Extrapolating on Padme's reminiscence of her childhood days with her friends. What he said was apparently not hilariously stupid enough to her to allow him to caress and kiss her as the music swelled. The god awful line juxtaposed with the romantic setting of the two characters is what makes it stand out. If Padme had reacted to that line like everyone else did, or if Anakin had been established earlier in the film as awkward, self-conscious, and fumbling when she's with him, then the line would have fit better. More appropriate build-up and context could damn well have let that line make Anakin sound endearingly befuddled or cute (something that would serve his eventual fall very well [if that had also been done better]). Instead the tone of the scene was completely counter to the inherent silliness of the line, and the character of Anakin we'd been shown up until then did not allow for any "cuteness" or relatability. That one line was a massive fumble in the movie, and it was but one of all of them.
Like this is any better.
Luke, on the other hand, is supposed to be some naive, foolish, head-strong kid looking for excitement. He progressively is forced in to more and more emotionally and physically challenging situations that demand he adapt as a person. That he sounds whiny early on and develops into a more serious, focused man later, is called an arc. Something almost entirely lacking from the prequels.
It's not about "who's more whiny" or "which sounds more stupid." Stupid lines and whiny characters are fine when used right. Anakin and his lines were not.
Well stated!
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Anakin was supposed to be conveying romantic interest. Extrapolating on Padme's reminiscence of her childhood days with her friends. What he said was apparently not hilariously stupid enough to her to allow him to caress and kiss her as the music swelled. The god awful line juxtaposed with the romantic setting of the two characters is what makes it stand out. If Padme had reacted to that line like everyone else did, or if Anakin had been established earlier in the film as awkward, self-conscious, and fumbling when she's with him, then the line would have fit better. More appropriate build-up and context could damn well have let that line make Anakin sound endearingly befuddled or cute (something that would serve his eventual fall very well [if that had also been done better]). Instead the tone of the scene was completely counter to the inherent silliness of the line, and the character of Anakin we'd been shown up until then did not allow for any "cuteness" or relatability. That one line was a massive fumble in the movie, and it was but one of all of them.Luke, on the other hand, is supposed to be some naive, foolish, head-strong kid looking for excitement. He progressively is forced in to more and more emotionally and physically challenging situations that demand he adapt as a person. That he sounds whiny early on and develops into a more serious, focused man later, is called an arc. Something almost entirely lacking from the prequels.
It's not about "who's more whiny" or "which sounds more stupid." Stupid lines and whiny characters are fine when used right. Anakin and his lines were not.
The problem is at the time Hamill delivered that line, it was just bad acting. Plain and simple.
I'm about dead positive that Lucas didn't tell Hamill to sound whiny because 2 movies later it would be important for his character arc.
Lucas never anticipated SW would go anywhere. He even placed a bet with Spielberg that it was going to flop.
I didn't really question anything about a character arc, or that Anakin was well written in the prequels.
I'm just saying that people have been infatuated with "bad acting" for like 15 years now, but whenever Hamill, Fisher, and even Ford (yes, Ford) struggled, it's rectified as being part of the some thoughtfully planned character arc....
So if Hayden had been well written in Episode 2 & 3, everyone would have forgiven Anakin's "Yippie" in Episode 1? Because the arc would have been that he was a kid and at the time that's something a kid would do.
Originally posted by Sith Master XYou can call it bad acting.
The problem is at the time Hamill delivered that line, it was just bad acting. Plain and simple.I'm about dead positive that Lucas didn't tell Hamill to sound whiny because 2 movies later it would be important for his character arc.
Lucas never anticipated SW would go anywhere. He even placed a bet with Spielberg that it was going to flop.
I didn't really question anything about a character arc, or that Anakin was well written in the prequels.
I'm just saying that people have been infatuated with "bad acting" for like 15 years now, but whenever Hamill, Fisher, and even Ford (yes, Ford) struggled, it's rectified as being part of the some thoughtfully planned character arc....
So if Hayden had been well written in Episode 2 & 3, everyone would have forgiven Anakin's "Yippie" in Episode 1? Because the arc would have been that he was a kid and at the time that's something a kid would do.
I'd call it very appropriate use of whining. I don't know why you singled out the "Toshi station" line, and call it the exception. It's not. To wit:
He whines about Toshi station.
He whines about not going to the academy.
He whines (demands, actually) that R2 bring back the pretty hologram girl.
He whines when he can't find R2.
He whines when he finds he's late for dinner.
He whines when he sees the Millennium Falcon.
He whines (snarkily) when the Falcon isn't going fast enough.
He whines when he can't see through the blast shield.
He whines when the handcuffs don't fit Chewie.
See a pattern? There's so much whine in this film that I'm amazed Luke didn't get alcohol poisoning. Being whiny is the point of his early character. He's the kid who grows as a person. Not having him be new, and ignorant, and whiny, will not serve the arc of the typical hero in the typical Hero's Quest. It wasn't bad acting that one time, it was appropriate acting in over half the first movie.
The difference between him and Anakin's "Yippie!" is that Anakin was a kid. Nothing further to that sentence--he was a kid. There's your problem. Not that 9 year olds actually say "Yippie!" anymore (and if they did, I'm sure they'd actually sound excited instead of sounding like they've done that take a dozen times already). Anakin Skywalker should not have been a child, ever. There's a reason we see Luke as an almost-20 year old: kids don't belong in this type of movie. They don't fit the atmosphere, the themes, the action, the romance, pace. Etc.
You say Luke's 'Toshi' line was bad acting? I call it (and all his other whiny lines) appropriate. You compare to Anakin's 'Yippie!'? I say that none of his lines, or his very existence as a child, was appropriate. There's the difference.
Originally posted by queeq"...although only a human mind would invent something as insipid as love."
Well, Lord Lucien is incredibly weird, but we love him anyway. 😉
I gotta agree with Lucien (Lord) here. Even in ANH there is an arc. Luke DOES whine a lot. But in the end we see Luke change. Wedge starts whining about the exhaust port and Luke corrects him. And later, in the X-Wing, when Ben tells him to let go, he has stopped whining himself. He obeys, lets go and blow the DS up....
Not a super arc, but good enough for a B-movie.
Biut yeah, the acting isn't great in ANH. Yes, even Ford has some cringe worthy lines ("What's so important? What's he carrying?"😉.
But... if we check out ESB, that movie has some excellent acting. Clearly the best of the saga. You see it improving, due to a good director. In ROTJ the scenes with Luke are pretty good (Ford and Fisher however kinda drop the ball, probably due to bad material and bad arcs, I'd say).
But on the other hand, at the time of the OT, SW was in constant development and there were many limitations. It doesn't help. 't the time of the PT, there weren't. So what's the excuse for bad material and bad acting?