Is objectification, sexist?

For example, a TnA thread was made in the OTF. Some regard that as sexist, but is objectification really sexist? Or does it stem from a more patriarchal society POV?

Originally posted by dadudemon
No.

Simply objectifying women is not enough to be "sexist." That's bullshit that [some] feminists have invented.

Also, admiring the female form, as a male, could sometimes be the exact opposite of sexism (reverse-sexism). This is due to some men thinking, "Wow...women are so amazing. They are definitely the superior sex." I've heard that stated many many times by men. That's sexism...but the wrong kind you're thinking of.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, I would like to add that at the heart of fighting sexism is the notion that one sex does not consider the feelings of the other.

When a women gets dressed (or undressed) to look super sexy and posses for a camera, her explicit feelings is for others to view her as sexy. By refusing to indulge her feelings with a false sense of "self-righteousness", you fail to take her feelings into consideration and in fact, become sexist. I am not even kidding. This seems like "crazy talk" because we have been bombarded but idiotic feminist ideals for decades so we are conditioned to not think objectively (hah, almost pun) about these subjects. But let me explain this a different way...*

This same logic applies, equally, to a woman who is photographed, for sexual reasons, WITHOUT her consent. Viewing that content is sexist to the max. You did not consider her feelings when viewing the content: she probably doesn't want you to view them.

*This does not mean you have to view every last picture, ever, of any person who posses sexy for a camera. This just means not to balk and scorn at women who choose to do these things. This also means not to balk and scorn at other people who view these things for pleasure or admiration.

Edit - Holy shit. I sound like a feminist. An actual feminist. How dare I actually take into account a person's feelings and demand equality for both sexes. Who the hell am I? 🙂

Nope.

Objectification is an action. It's the motivation for an action that dictates whether it's sexist or not.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Nope.

Objectification is an action. It's the motivation for an action that dictates whether it's sexist or not.

Ahhh yes: see "mens rea" and "actus reus".

But, that would assume looking at the opposite sex in admiration (commonly viewed as objectification) is, fundamentally, wrong. I disagree with that notion, as well.

Sexual objectification of women is sexist, imo, yes.

I would also say that certain objectification of men is sexist as well. It seems to be less prevalent and less of an issue for men.

It would be interesting to get a female's point of view in this thread.

It would be great to get many women's POVs on many issues. though I can understand why so many women are wary of giving their opinion in public forums.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It would be great to get many women's POVs on many issues.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sexual objectification of women is sexist, imo, yes.

I would also say that certain objectification of men is sexist as well. It seems to be less prevalent and less of an issue for men.

The experiences of a man growing up are very different to those of a women, especially when it comes to sexuality and being sexualized.

Sexual, not sexist.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The experiences of a man growing up are very different to those of a women, especially when it comes to sexuality and being sexualized.

On this, we agree.

However, I'm noticing a trend where men are becoming more and more objectified. Equality, as I see it.

I don't think objectification is bad. I think the sexes should be able to equally objectify. However, women's brains and their sexuality work in slightly different ways than men (something that some posit is not possible to readily change). Men are more visually stimulated.

So if we created an environment where men and women were raised as equals and had equal opportunities once maturity is reached, there would still be significant differences in sexual behaviors.

Originally posted by Oneness
Sexual, not sexist.

That's an excellent way of putting it. 👆

Originally posted by Bardock42
The experiences of a man growing up are very different to those of a women, especially when it comes to sexuality and being sexualized.

Saying that, if patriarchy wasn't a problem, objectification wouldn't be a problem.....hence why objectification isn't that much of a problem with men....

Objectification of a women isn't imo but when its all women and that is all you think about regarding them it is. So an individuals objectification it depends on the mindset behind it, but on a societal level it pretty much is sexist.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Objectification of a women isn't imo but when its all women and that is all you think about regarding them it is. So an individuals objectification it depends on the mindset behind it, but on a societal level it pretty much is sexist.

The problem is that it is almost impossible to separate an individual objectification from the context of society.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The problem is that it is almost impossible to separate an individual objectification from the context of society.

True. But I mean focusing on one's appearance and sexual desirability itself doesn't make you exist even if it is shaped by the culture you live in. It's just not that simple to me. I think there are levels and ranges where it goes from simply a form of attraction and possibly misplaced admiration for form to full on sexism. Basically I'm saying objectionable by itself isn't automatically a problem as much as how important it is and the sheer scale.

Well, I feel like there is a difference between desiring someone or appreciating someone's looks and objectifying them. To me objectifying is reducing a person to a sexual object, not viewing them as a person at all anymore. And that is, imo, always sexist.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I feel like there is a difference between desiring someone or appreciating someone's looks and objectifying them. To me objectifying is reducing a person to a sexual object, not viewing them as a person at all anymore. And that is, imo, always sexist.

Well as example I don't think looking at porn is sexist, which in that situation you are basically doing just that or say making an erotic story or something that focuses on the sex and enticing you.

It could be me wanting to differentiate a sexist thought from a sexist person by some views though

Hmm, well I think there is pornography that is sexist and pornography that is not sexist. And I also think there are viewers of pornography that are sexist and those that are not. I can see differentiating it. However to me I would say it is sexist if you reduce the characters (in porn or an erotic story) to nothing but vehicles of sexual gratification. I don't think if you do that in the privacy of your own place, and you are aware of it, that it is a hugely terrible thing, we are all products of a sexist society after all, but I still think that it is sexist.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I feel like there is a difference between desiring someone or appreciating someone's looks and objectifying them. To me objectifying is reducing a person to a sexual object, not viewing them as a person at all anymore. And that is, imo, always sexist.

Then that's just a word game on the word "objectification" rather than a substantive argument (I'm referring to the disagreement between you and I, earlier).

In your use of "objectification", I agree that you mean it to be sexist. I don't. Like others have pointed out, there are different levels of objectification. Like I pointed out, there is a line.

But I chose to define objectification more simply and, instead, prefer to use "dehumanizing" to mean what you mean.

For me, that avoids the word semantics and still gets the point across.