Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus

My analyse ;

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/erkan12/blog/darth-maul-vs-darth-tyranus/95498/

Dooku

Dooku.

Yeah. Sorry, but Dooku is superior. He's stated to be more powerful and he's a more skilled duelist. Maul is in better physical shape but that's about it.

Maul has become more powerful thanks to TCW revival.

I'll reserve to make a judgement until the end of Son of Dathomir

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah. Sorry, but Dooku is superior. He's stated to be more powerful and he's a more skilled duelist. Maul is in better physical shape but that's about it.

His power isn’t on Vader’s level, true, or even on Count Dooku’s level — but that never stops him. He stands alongside the Sith Lords only by sheer force of will.-Jeremy Barlow

Barlow didn't even watch TCW (I know its funny he said this at some insider magazine) so probably he learned Maul's new feats after they told him. Yet he considered him as ''he stands alongside the sith lords only by sheer force of will'' ...

Also Lucas said this ;

''"And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stones Interview, 2005.
'' From then on, he (Vader) wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- Vader was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku.

It doesn't matter. Barlow has the approval to determine Maul's strength. And that quote has next to nothing to do with the topic at hand. Maul obviously isn't more powerful than Sidious.

Dooku you mean ?

No, their telekinesis feats are matches at TCW, Maul force pulled Eta Class Shuttle (spaceship), collapse a cave while hurling Obi-Wan and force choked Obi-Wan more than once. Dooku is not superior to TCW Maul in terms of TK.

For TP, Maul killed a telepath with just his dark thoughts.

Force lightning goes to Dooku.

Dueling skill, Dooku is a little better, however Dooku is weak against physical attacks in mid-duel, thats why he lost to Anakin's djem-so in RotS, and Maul's dueling skills depends on physical, remember Savage vs. Dooku, Savage throwed Dooku with just one stroke only, Maul easily defeated the same Savage via physical. Maul has serious physical advantage over Dooku.

What would Jeremy Barlow know about Darth Maul's power level or about official canon?

In any case Dooku is superior to Maul. But Maul makes Dooku work for the win.

This is the part I mentioned from Insider Magazine ;

Also Son of Dathomir based on unaired episodes of The Clone Wars television series. I believe Jeremy Barlow's script was really limited, since it has been already decided by TCW editors...

Originally posted by Marco1907
Dooku you mean ?

No, their telekinesis feats are matches at TCW, Maul force pulled Eta Class Shuttle (spaceship), collapse a cave while hurling Obi-Wan and force choked Obi-Wan more than once. Dooku is not superior to TCW Maul in terms of TK.

For TP, Maul killed a telepath with just his dark thoughts.

Force lightning goes to Dooku.

Dueling skill, Dooku is a little better, however Dooku is weak against physical attacks in mid-duel, thats why he lost to Anakin's djem-so in RotS.

and Maul's dueling skills depends on physical, remember Savage vs. Dooku, Savage throwed Dooku with just one stroke only,

Maul easily defeated the same Savage via physical. Maul has serious physical advantage over Dooku.

@FreshestSlice

No, of course Dooku is superior to Savage Opress. Just that Savage's style depends on physical might, and thats something Dooku can't tank, strong kinetic attacks & physical blows in mid duel.

Dooku defeated Savage via force lightning, not because of lightsaber combat. I also think that Maul can deflect Dooku's lightning with his lightsaber unlike Savage.

Dooku doesn't need to tank powerful physical blows. He simply deflects and redirects the blows, as well as dodging them with superior footwork.

Notice how Maul handled Opress' s blow in their little fight. He also redirected the Brute's angry blows. Dooku is the Master of that technique so he has no issue there. In fact that issue only ever comes up when Dooku is having to deal with multiple opponents. And even then he had a great record of taking on multiple opponents.

I was talking about this scene ;

^ Yeah and considering he was fighting off 2 opponents (and winning mind you, something Maul couldn't do) he was probably just taken back by Opress' s strength. Let's not ignore the fact that due to Makashi's excellent footwork Dooku was easily evading many attacks from both Venress and Opress in that scene.

However if you see Dooku's one on one training session with Opress, you'll see how Dooku completely Stomps him in Sabers, and how Opress' s strength( and Kinetic Energy he generates from his strength) is no problem for Dooku whatsoever.

That's not to take away from Opress. Flooring Dooku (even with aid from Ventress) is a great feat. One that neither Ventress or Kenobi have ever managed. But let's not blow it out of proportion. There's no "weakness" Dooku has when dealing with Brutes.

@DARTH POWER

Dooku didn't win there, stalemated with Asajj + Savage duo. And I disagree, Maul could do the same with Asajj + Savage, he already stomped Savage via lightsaber combat+martial art, and Maul could stomp Asajj as well.

And training - sparring really means nothing, Savage didn't even know how to swing a lightsaber, so it is natural that his kinetic attack was weak at that point. After his training, Dooku never manage to deflect his powerful kinetic attacks.

Originally posted by Marco1907

Dooku didn't win there, stalemated with Asajj + Savage duo.

According to the official site, Dooku was winning:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/savage-opress-biography-gallery

In the 8th panel where the description of the battle takes place:

"Dooku's Sith mastery barely gave him the edge over his former apprentices"

Also note Dooku wasn't even prepared for this fight. It was a complete shock to him that Ventress was alive and Opress working for her. Yet he still had the edge over the duo.

Then when we look at his Clone War Season 6 battle against a superior duo Anakin and Obi-Wan(that one actually was a stalemate, but even then I'd give the edge to Dooku), it's clear the Count is a fair bit above the duo of Ventress and Opress.

Originally posted by Marco1907
And I disagree, Maul could do the same with Asajj + Savage,

Could in 1 or 2/10 fights. Yeah possibly. But in an average battle or for a majority? Doubt it. Think of how much trouble Asajj has given Kenobi in the past. Maul has never proven himself superior to Kenobi. Of course both Maul and Kenobi are above Ventress and Opress in combat prowess in a one on one scenario, but both of them together against either Maul or Kenobi, then the Ventress/Opress duo would likely win a vast majority.

Originally posted by Marco1907
he already stomped Savage via lightsaber combat+martial art,

Dooku also stomped Opress in a one on one. But it's much harder dealing with Opress's strength when he's backed up by a second much more skilled opponent.

Originally posted by Marco1907
and Maul could stomp Asajj as well.

Maul's certainly above Ventress. But a stomp seems an unlikely scenario to me personally.

Originally posted by Marco1907
And training - sparring really means nothing, Savage didn't even know how to swing a lightsaber, so it is natural that his kinetic attack was weak at that point.

It does mean something. Opress was getting frustrated at not being able to land a blow in, and was visibly trying his best.

And Opress hardly received any training from Dooku at all. The vast majority of his power is from his Nightsister amp as confirmed by Dave Filoni here:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/02/05/star-wars-the-clone-wars-dave-filoni-talks-about-the-death-watchdarth-maul-arc-and-the-casualties-along-the-way?page=2

" He’s got barely any training from Dooku. He’s kind of more magically imbued by Mother Talzin than anything else, which is evidenced when he dies.

Originally posted by Marco1907
After his training, Dooku never manage to deflect his powerful kinetic attacks.

It was one hit that he fell to. The fact that it was the only hit that landed is due only to the fact that Dooku dodged every single other hit Opress tried to land. But that doesn't mean if Dooku let Opress land more hits than it would have floored Dooku every time. Both Kenobi and Ventress have shown they can block Opress's blows, so it would be silly to think Dooku can't (especially when Dooku has Blocked both the combined might Kenobi's and Anakin's 2 handed blows simultaneously! Oh and he's done that with one arm!)

So he was probably expending some energy evading both Ventress and Opress in a cramped space over and over. And even the non-canon passage from the Revenge of the Sith Novel which is the one that references Dooku's apparent weakness to kinetic energy (even though in the film he blocks both Skywalker and Kenobi's 2 handed blow with just one arm) it makes it clear in the very same novel that it's especially a problem "While Fending Off a SECOND Opponent."

So in an ordinary one on one situation, Dooku has no particular weakness against Kinetic energy. He generates less himself due to Makashi being a one handed fencing style which aims to conserve energy and deflect and redirect blows, while giving ground and using a lot of footwork. Rather than simply swinging with all the power both your arms can muster.

And fact is that style of fencing has proven time and time again to be very effective at dealing with Powerful Blows. Dooku fends off Yoda's super powered Ataru blows for a sufficient amount of time in Attack of the Clones. He also continually fends of a pissed Anakin Skywalker's blows in TCW episode "Crisis on Naboo" (at least until Skywalker lands a kick and Dooku trips over some steps behind him while giving ground). And it's also exactly the style Maul uses to easily fend off Savage's blows. Maul doesn't use all his power to full on match Opress's blows. He uses a very Makashi like style of defending (redirecting Opress's blows while giving ground), and then uses a martial arts move to to disarm Opress.

So yeah Dooku has no particular weakness against Kinetic energy, and is in fact very well suited to dealing with Powerful Lightsaber Blows, especially in a one on one situation.

Well, lets say agree to disagree then. 🙂

Sure imo, Dooku can tank a kinetic attacks for some degree I am not saying he is totally vulnerable to it, and Savage's strength is really abnormal, he is probably even physically stronger than Anakin & Maul (Maul is debatable though since he was able to twist Savage's hand)