Originally posted by NephthysThe difference is that power comes from the Force, not his mastery of the tenets of lightsaber combat. Its the difference between clubbing your opponent to death and applying a bit of finesse, if Maul can withstand his bruth force tactics (which he can) he's already won half the battle.
No, skill as well. And I don't really see what difference that makes, it's all combat ability. "Unstoppable might", "immense skill" "unrivaled strength in battle", it's all good.
The Wrath is also one of the most skilled and deadly Sith Warriors in history. The greatest warrior of the peak of the Sith's military potency as we know it (except for Malgus maybe depending on how you swing it).Meh, I'm sure you'd interpret it that way, but its nowhere stated as far as I know. Maul also has the bigger history, and is a better duelist than Malgus really.
Described by whom? Because I'm fairly certain Mauls skills were paralleled by a few in the PT alone. And the Wrath was also stated to have unrivaled battle prowess and lightsaber skill. And he's a one-being army, he tore through a thousand of the Republics finest soldiers on Balmorra and has fought through hundreds of opponents multiple times. He is far more deserving of that hyperbolic title than Maul, who only ever beat an "army" of gangsters or a few dozen droids.Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, pretty sure the perspective is objective. Its probably hyperbole but it proves a point, especially considering some of the greatest duelists in history where his contemporaries.
The point is Maul is more than capable of matching the Wrath's martial prowess, but what Maul undeniably possesses is superior skill. The Wrath might be a superior Force User but in a lightsaber duel Maul's edge would be more significant.
Also, do you know what happened to Torhead?I don't use it. 😬
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The difference is that power comes from the Force, not his mastery of the tenets of lightsaber combat. Its the difference between clubbing your opponent to death and applying a bit of finesse, if Maul can withstand his bruth force tactics (which he can) he's already won half the battle.
Well unfortunately for Maul, I already told you that the Wraths "skills with a lightsaber are unrivaled." I don't know where you got this idea that he's some untrained thug swinging a baseball bat but it's simply not true.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Meh, I'm sure you'd interpret it that way, but its nowhere stated as far as I know. Maul also has the bigger history, and is a better duelist than Malgus really.
It doesn't need to be stated, it's readily apparent from his accomplishments. You read Ant's respect thread, right?
Malgus would beat Maul fairly easily though. And I'd say the Wrath has the bigger history actually. Much more experience in open combat against lightsaber wielding opponents and overall experience in real combat.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, pretty sure the perspective is objective. Its probably hyperbole but it proves a point, especially considering some of the greatest duelists in history where his contemporaries.The point is Maul is more than capable of matching the Wrath's martial prowess, but what Maul undeniably possesses is superior skill. The Wrath might be a superior Force User but in a lightsaber duel Maul's edge would be more significant.
I'm still immensely skeptical given that Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, Windu and others existed at that point. But regardless, I've matched that quote.
I disagree that his advantage in skill is undeniable or significant. The Wrath's overall advantage's in the Force and other area's seem greater.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't use it. 😬
Well looks like you won't get a chance, now it just links to the swtor site. I thought you might know since you're a member there.
It sucks, that was an incredibly useful collection of info.
On the point of Maul being "unparalleled", I believe it was just a couple of references from Sidious, saying Maul was crafted to be the "ultimate warrior", and that he thought his use of the saberstaff was perfect/"peerless". This was in a private log Sidious created, so it's inherent validity isn't really questionable.
Pretty sure "The Sith Warrior's skills with a lightsaber are unrivaled" references all Sith Warriors. Which it makes it an even greater testament to the Wrath's skill, given that he's the pinnacle of Sith Warriors in the TOR Empire, other than Malgus. I mean, the Wrath's combat feats also speak to that, but w/e.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Pretty sure "The Sith Warrior's skills with a lightsaber are unrivaled" references all Sith Warriors.
Nah. It's singular and the use of "the" suggests it is talking about a specific warrior, THE warrior. Plus like Benji said under your interpretation the very quote contradicts itself.
That's one way to interpret it. But Ant made a very good point that the same page lists Vette and the Warrior's personal ship, so it seems very likely to me it's specifically about the Warrior that players can play as, just written in a collective sense due to the mechanics of the game. There's also pictures next to the quote depicting the Wrath himself.
Regardless though, the Wrath is a Warrior so even if we take it as indicative of all Warriors it proves that they utilise a great deal of skill on top of brute force. As the pinnacle of the class this goes doubly for the Wrath.
Originally posted by ares834
Nah. It's singular and the use of "the" suggests it is talking about a specific warrior, THE warrior. Plus like Benji said under your interpretation the very quote contradicts itself.
Actually it is "A Sith Warrior's skills with a lightsaber are unrivaled."
If we take the collective interpretation I guess we could say that a Sith Warriors skill is unrivaled compared to other professions.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I wouldn't even give The Wrath an edge in power. Maul nearly choked out Kenobi while at the same time fighting off another jedi, and considering Kenobi's own power, that's not a feat I could see the wrath duplicating. The only force advantage the wrath has is range of attacks.
Weren't they on a darkside nexus?
Also...... it's Kenobi.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Weren't they on a darkside nexus?Also...... it's Kenobi.
No, the strong dark side presence was from Maul and Savage. It wasn't an outside source of power Maul was tapping into. Just to make sure, I had asked Silver2467 for a background check of the planet, and he said the place was sparsely populated, with Maul and Opress being the first force users on record to have visited the planet. Basically, it's similar to Anakin and Ahsoka sensing the dark side on mustufar when they went to rescue the kidnapped children, but what they were sensing was the holographic presence of Sidious (can Vitiate's mere holographic presence do that, Neph? Lol jp).
Also, Kenobi has some insane force feats. He's toppled trees, wrecked metal rooms, levitated huge metal slabs, caused tidal waves, used huge boulders as projectiles launching them at great speed, etc. The only reason he's ragdolled so much is because of the opponents he goes up against. He's fought all the big dogs except for Sidious.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
The planet is called nexus. I rest my case.
Full quote? I've disregarded many of Palpatine's nexus feats so I've no problem disregarding Maul's feat. If Maul and Opress are the source of that power then it's not some outside source of power. I mean, one might say the same regarding Palpatine and Byss, but the difference in that is, Byss was a continuous build up of Sidious's energy, not power he could harness all at once off-world.
Regardless, Maul has consistently overpowered Obi Wan outside of that comic, which is something I don't believe the wrath can replicate to the same degree.
Originally posted by NephthysI'm taking the statement to refer to Sith Warriors in general, if it refers to the Wrath specifically the implications are that he is the most skilled lightsaber duelist in the Sith Empire, or perhaps even the galaxy.
Well unfortunately for Maul, I already told you that the Wraths "skills with a lightsaber are unrivaled." I don't know where you got this idea that he's some untrained thug swinging a baseball bat but it's simply not true.
Wishful thinking.
I think if we take it as a collective and with a pinch of salt, it means that a Sith Warrior is going to have the best lightsaber skills in any one group or situation.
But anyway I'm not claiming the Sith Warrior is unskilled, but he does rely, as most strong styles do, on brute force to defeat him opponents. To provide an example just look at Darth Malgus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm4JEZudf0c&t=4m48s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ToztqqDcaY&t=3m9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdgmH9Vv2-I&t=2m30s
In all three of these engagements we see Malgus going for the same tactic, overwhelming his opponents through sheer brute force until they relent and always going for the disarming slash. He repeatedly goes for the same zone, usually Zone 1, again and again and again, and sometimes he simply flails his lightsaber like a mace. He does indeed swing his blade like a club until his opponent relents.
I'm not saying such a style of attack is devoid of skill, but what it is is predictable, the goal is not to baffle, trick or outmaneuver the opponent, but to simply batter down any defense they attempt to erect.
Malgus is a cookie-cutter Sith Warrior, and wields the classic styles of the discipline. I have little doubt the Wrath's style will not be the same if not identical.
Maul will have little difficulty reading, anticipating and reacting to such a blatant style, and considering Maul is in peak physical condition and possesses incredible strength, the Wrath will find his attempts to batter Maul down in effective, and he'll respond with a far greater deal of finesse and range of attack. Unlike the Wrath his style will be unpredictable, and it will attempt to baffle, trick and outmaneuver, and it will be executed with absolute perfection.
Once the Wrath fails to batter Maul down, its only a matter of time before Maul outfences him.
I'd also add that Maul has a greater level of agility, mobility being a key weaknesses of strong styles, and Maul is also a master of Teras Kasi, so hand to hand goes to him also.
It doesn't need to be stated, it's readily apparent from his accomplishments. You read Ant's respect thread, right?It does, you can't just throw around such impressive accolades based on personal inferences alone. Wrath is a great duelist yes, and he has defeated some impressive opponents. But he hasn't ever dueled the real greats of the era e.g. the Hero of Tython, Malgus, Revan, Satele Shan, Jaric Kaedan, Jun Seros etc. in one on one combat.Malgus would beat Maul fairly easily though. And I'd say the Wrath has the bigger history actually. Much more experience in open combat against lightsaber wielding opponents and overall experience in real combat.
So we can't even begin to say he's the best, if even among them.
And when I said history I mean those who have preceded him. When Maul is said to be among "the most skilled and deadly warriors in Sith history" he's being placed along side the likes of Tulak Hord, Exar Kun, Bane, Malgus, Dooku, Sidious, Plagueis etc.
I'm still immensely skeptical given that Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, Windu and others existed at that point. But regardless, I've matched that quote.Exactly. Unlike the Wrath, he stands among some of the greatest duelists in galactic history.
As for the quote, ILS is correct about the context, however consider that Sidious is 1. not one to shower his pupils in praise, 2. well acquainted with the abilities of his predecessors, and his Jedi contemporaries, including Dooku.
Sidious is no doubt applying the term loosely, but it still bears weight, it puts Maul in the top tier.
I disagree that his advantage in skill is undeniable or significant. The Wrath's overall advantage's in the Force and other area's seem greater.To be quite honest, I'd argue that in terms of Force power they are easily in the same league.
Feel free to prove me wrong, but Maul has just as impressive feats really.
Well looks like you won't get a chance, now it just links to the swtor site. I thought you might know since you're a member there.Word is the guy couldn't afford the upkeep...It sucks, that was an incredibly useful collection of info.
Originally posted by NewGuy01Maul has ragdolled Kenobi on multiple occassions.
The planet is called nexus. I rest my case.
That was on Florrum i.e. not a nexus.
And that was on Mandalore, another non-nexus.
I rest mine, lawls.