Originally posted by CadenceV2
Beatboks my friend, you still are one of the best here or anywhere to these older characters lol.
I have no doubt Operator616 could knowledge dump me out of existence. I've seen him drop knowledge that I had no clue on, and he's shown as much knowledge on even Golden age characters as I have.
Originally posted by beatboks
I have no doubt Operator616 could knowledge dump me out of existence. I've seen him drop knowledge that I had no clue on, and he's shown as much knowledge on even Golden age characters as I have.
You still intorduce me to characters like Shield. The superior Captain America lol.
Originally posted by krisblaze
Hype won't save Daimon.
Considering that every single scan (bar the one where Hellcat and Mephisto entered his realm, and the few i loaded from the 2007 mini) was prior to his upgrade to hell lord status and several were before he fully attained his darksoul, how is any of it hype??
He's vastly more pwoerful now that most of the scans I offered which were classic (from the 70's and 80's when he was SHOWN to be Classic Strange's equal in feats).
To counter that so far we have had Llun offered. Who as I recall when he first met the team easily soloed all of them. Forced Talisman to fight him which released him and trapped them in the battle realm. They managed to get to a nexus which allowed them to get to a world that appeared to be theirs but was a dreamscape that was easily manipulated by their own thoughts to control the reality within. Even in the Dream scape Shaman was pretty badly injured and had to heal himself with the reality warping that it made possible (not his own power). Once they finally did get free he was still coughing badly and IIRC collapsed.
Their next encounter Shaman was injured or KO'd when Llun kidnapped Talisman and trapped her in a place she couldn't get to earth magic (her source of power). He'd made preparations to seal teh doorway of light ( not 100% sure that is even the correct name - but a gateway that all the forces of good come though or army of good to fight evil). This was finally breached by Dr Strange (from the inside) and Talisman from the outside. Only when both of them were trying to open it did it.
It was the army of good who won the day not Shaman, and as I recall his showings in that tale were pretty abysmal and not much to offer.
They are the only two encounters with Alpha flight I'm aware of. Some of the specifics I've mentioned are likely a little off (still haven't gone looking through my comics for the issues been at the wives relatives all day a couple hours drive away).
The other offering so far is ranaq. The first encounter I'm aware of with him was only him in the host of a young woman after he kitchen or some meal she was cooking attacked her. Something to to with her father or grandtather. Shaman went to the place with his daughter (before she was Talisman IIRC this was the first time she was aware of her power). When the young woman attacked them the future talisman somehow instinctively turned the power back on her. While she was battling it Shaman (again from memory) threw some jewels from his pouch at it and destroyed it.
The other was when they went into the past and some old western cronie was tricked into removing a mystical talisman that protected him from Ranaq to receive hi reward and subsequently possessed. It ws Snowbird who fought him not Shaman ( and according to KM Talisman was also there but I only vaguely remember that after he mentioned it). While they battled the Kid (who was there also with mystical protection) shot the other old cronie with a magic bullet and they won. Again nothing to do with Shaman as I recall.
none of these examples as best I can recall are great showings for Shaman. If there are other times he fought these two please point them out.
I wouldn't count Llan as the same level as a hell Lord (which Hellstrom has defeated more than once), but I would say Ranaq is pretty close. i just don't see any great showing in their encounters based on the context as I remember it.
Oh sorry completely forgot about this, been busy as recently bought a house so haven't been on much and slipped my mind. Won't be adding much as will be busy unpacking so just a few points and then I'm going to be AWOL for awhile.
Everything is here from soul manipulation/trapping, weather manipulation, time manipulation, duplications, shields that held multiple wendigo at once, pouch sucking up an atomic bomb blast, galactic spanning telepathy, etc. All of which people said Damien could do and thus give him the win.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t490553.html
You missed the point if he could hurt Llan and other beings more powerful then Hellstorm there is no reason (As you claimed) Shaman couldn't hurt him. Also Llan is above the Great Beasts and is stated as such (Llan > Ranaq) and Llan would destroy Hellstorm.
You really are focusing a lot on titles alone. Even in New Avengers/Chaos War (haven't read Avengers Undercover)Hellstorm didn't look uber. If this was in his realm where he would have absolute control sure this could be a stomp but it's not.
Sidenote, the second Ranaq fight had Puck, Snowbird, Shaman and Talisman there (they went into the past as Shaman teleported them through time). Snowbird merely got shot away and really didn't fight him and then Shaman began healing her. In this fight only Talisman fought Ranaq and after absorbing his powers was shot with the magical bullet and killed the host. That's why I didn't bring it up.
For additional information for you or others:
Great Beast respect thread
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t545957.html
Llan respect tread
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t446207.html
Everything is there including issue numbers if you wish to look up the issues yourself. Context is there. Others please feel free to continue to debate, I won't be around much for awhile so won't be adding anything else.
Sorry again beatboks