Merged Superboy was literally altering time-lines at will, and creating pocket universes. That's way above H'el.
Heck, Kon-El and Supergirl managed to beat H'el after Kon's significant growth in power after he trashed Jon Kent in Teen Titans and was given his memories.
You could argue Kon-El at his strongest would give H'el problems if not outright beat him.
Originally posted by Iskandar
Merged Superboy was literally altering time-lines at will, and creating pocket universes. That's way above H'el.Heck, Kon-El and Supergirl managed to beat H'el after Kon's significant growth in power after he trashed Jon Kent in Teen Titans and was given his memories.
You could argue Kon-El at his strongest would give H'el problems if not outright beat him.
Originally posted by Iskandar
Merged Superboy was literally altering time-lines at will, and creating pocket universes. That's way above H'el.Heck, Kon-El and Supergirl managed to beat H'el after Kon's significant growth in power after he trashed Jon Kent in Teen Titans and was given his memories.
You could argue Kon-El at his strongest would give H'el problems if not outright beat him.
👆
He'l knew this which was the reason he was so focused on killing Superboy.
Originally posted by abhilegend
You mean where H'el was weakened due to separating himself at three timelines and fighting Superman, Supergirl and Superboy simultaneously?
Yes and no, don't forget that it didn't actually weaken H'el. What it did was if H'el got hurt in one time-line, it transferred over to the other time-line.
We see that here in Supergirl #25.
http://i.imgur.com/kwix0gg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XIjrAdn.jpg
Also, H'el chronologically fought Superman last in those time-lines in Superman #25. H'el only fought Superboy and Supergirl at the same time. As H'el himself notes "the two time-lines... converging..." Not all three.
We don't see any of that damage transfer over then meaning it was just the one time-line when he fought Superman.
Originally posted by Iskandar
Yes and no, don't forget that it didn't actually weaken H'el. What it did was if H'el got hurt in one time-line, it transferred over to the other time-line.We see that here in Supergirl #25.
http://i.imgur.com/kwix0gg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XIjrAdn.jpgAlso, H'el chronologically fought Superman last in those time-lines in Superman #25. H'el only fought Superboy and Supergirl at the same time. As H'el himself notes "the [B]two
time-lines... converging..." Not all three.We don't see any of that damage transfer over then meaning it was just the one time-line when he fought Superman. [/B]
If you split yourself through the time, you are most likely not at your full power. You just need to compare how H'el did against those three in his very first appearance and how they did against him once he was in more then one timeline fighting them. Using power to go through time and be in places at the same time, should by any stretch of logic, cost you power.
Even Superboy comments, "can't hold it together everywhere at once, eh?", looking down on H'el who is bleeding from a wound he got from Supergirl, who defeated him in another timeline, and is desintergrating.
H'el almost killed Superboy before, with ease, and beat Superman and Supergirl at the same time, he is on another level. Only when he did his time-stunt he was beaten. Sure in the end Superman beat him with ease in the most relevant timeline, or as Jor-El commented "This is the ONE TIME and PLACE in all the VARIANTS where H'el could make good of his threat to rule Krypton for an Eternity."
So we know that H'el split his powers, was defeated by Supergirl and Kon, in another timeline, two of those he beat before with utter ease, and when he came back to the one timeline that matters, he was beaten by Superman himself, though, I would say very weakened by his fights, timejumps and Jor-Els trap.
H'el at his best, was above Superman, Supergirl and Superboy.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
[B]If you split yourself through the time, you are most likely not at your full power.
This is an assumption not supported by in-story context. We know H'el had damage being transferred to him from one time-line to another.
That's what we know for sure.
You just need to compare how H'el did against those three in his very first appearance
Which doesn't work because Superboy has changed drastically since then, and gotten a whole bunch of new feats and upgrades.
Not to mention that this is not just Superboy but Kon-El/Jon Kent fused together.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=600966&pagenumber=2
Originally posted by ME
http://i.imgur.com/Q5kvTgj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PMCUX3r.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DE7IFfK.jpgWe see the merged Kon-El/Jon Kent easily put the smack down on the other Superboy's disintegrating two of them.
http://i.imgur.com/SDzbej7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5jCSMti.jpgThen we see Kon-El/Jon Kent create a pocket universe and he changes Peter, Michael, and Rose into alternate time-line versions of themselves.
http://i.imgur.com/5jCSMti.jpg
Then Kon-El/Jon Kent does the same with Niti turning her into a freaking Green Lantern.
http://i.imgur.com/P7zFnZZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/csbn5Ip.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qA9rS9i.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q989I4F.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LrBefBf.jpgThen present Jon Kent makes his appearance and is able to separate Kon-El and future Jon Kent.
Which I already posted the context of here.
and how they did against him once he was in more then one timeline fighting them. Using power to go through time and be in places at the same time, should by any stretch of logic, cost you power.
Which is never outright stated.
Even Superboy comments, "can't hold it together everywhere at once, eh?", looking down on H'el who is bleeding from a wound he got from Supergirl, who defeated him in another timeline, and is desintergrating.
Superman #25
http://i.imgur.com/p0L5R0w.jpg
Yes, I am familiar and it happened right after Superboy attacked him in Supergirl #25.
It's because H'el was defeated by Superboy in the time-line he was in, and at the same time defeated by Supergirl in the time-line she was in.
H'el almost killed Superboy before, with ease, and beat Superman and Supergirl at the same time, he is on another level.
Which is again ignoring that this isn't Kon-El but rather Kon-El/Jon Kent, and that Kon-El has been upgraded since his initial defeat ay the hands of H'el in Superboy #14.
Only when he did his time-stunt he was beaten. Sure in the end Superman beat him with ease in the most relevant timeline, or as Jor-El commented "This is the ONE TIME and PLACE in all the VARIANTS where H'el could make good of his threat to rule Krypton for an Eternity."
Which only happened after Jor-El drastically weakened H'el by nearly killing him with a device designed specifically to do so. Not because H'el was weakened as a result of being splint into different time-lines.
Superman #25
http://i.imgur.com/xpnR2fg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tZwL824.jpg
Superman being the boyscout that he is tries to save H'el from Jor-El's device but H'el is still horribly mutilated by it.
So we know that H'el split his powers,
No we don't. We know H'el split himself and we don't know if that actually weakened him.
was defeated by Supergirl and Kon, in another timeline,
Which is the only thing you're actually right about.
two of those he beat before with utter ease,
Again you're ignoring that Kon-El was much more powerful in Krypton Returns than he was when that happened in H'el on Earth.
and when he came back to the one timeline that matters, he was beaten by Superman himself, though, I would say very weakened by his fights, timejumps and Jor-Els trap.
We don't see H'el with any of the damage from Superboy and Supergirl's time-lines. This was a different H'el unaffected by either of those two periods of time. The mutilation H'el suffered was caused solely by Jor-El's machine, that tore H'el apart on a molecular level.
It was only Superboy and Supergirl's time-lines that converged.
H'el at his best, was above Superman, Supergirl and Superboy
Above Supergirl and Superman. The only time we see H'el have the advantage against Superboy was when Kon-El had yet to truly master his psionics and before Kon-El himself reached the height of his power.
Originally posted by Iskandar
This is an assumption not supported by in-story context. We know H'el had damage being transferred to him from one time-line to another.That's what we know for sure.
Which doesn't work because Superboy has changed drastically since then, and gotten a whole bunch of new feats and upgrades.
Not to mention that this is not just Superboy but Kon-El/Jon Kent fused together.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=600966&pagenumber=2
[QUOTE=ME]http://i.imgur.com/Q5kvTgj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PMCUX3r.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DE7IFfK.jpgWe see the merged Kon-El/Jon Kent easily put the smack down on the other Superboy's disintegrating two of them.
http://i.imgur.com/SDzbej7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5jCSMti.jpgThen we see Kon-El/Jon Kent create a pocket universe and he changes Peter, Michael, and Rose into alternate time-line versions of themselves.
http://i.imgur.com/5jCSMti.jpg
Then Kon-El/Jon Kent does the same with Niti turning her into a freaking Green Lantern.
http://i.imgur.com/P7zFnZZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/csbn5Ip.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qA9rS9i.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q989I4F.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LrBefBf.jpgThen present Jon Kent makes his appearance and is able to separate Kon-El and future Jon Kent.
Which I already posted the context of here.
Which is never outright stated.
Superman #25
http://i.imgur.com/p0L5R0w.jpg
Yes, I am familiar and it happened right after Superboy attacked him in Supergirl #25.
It's because H'el was defeated by Superboy in the time-line he was in, and at the same time defeated by Supergirl in the time-line she was in.
Which is again ignoring that this isn't Kon-El but rather Kon-El/Jon Kent, and that Kon-El has been upgraded since his initial defeat ay the hands of H'el in Superboy #14.
Which only happened after Jor-El drastically weakened H'el by nearly killing him with a device designed specifically to do so. Not because H'el was weakened as a result of being splint into different time-lines.
Superman #25
http://i.imgur.com/xpnR2fg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tZwL824.jpg
Superman being the boyscout that he is tries to save H'el from Jor-El's device but H'el is still horribly mutilated by it.
No we don't. We know H'el split himself and we don't know if that actually weakened him.
Which is the only thing you're actually right about.
Again you're ignoring that Kon-El was much more powerful in Krypton Returns than he was when that happened in H'el on Earth.
We don't see H'el with any of the damage from Superboy and Supergirl's time-lines. This was a different H'el unaffected by either of those two periods of time. The mutilation H'el suffered was caused solely by Jor-El's machine, that tore H'el apart on a molecular level.
It was only Superboy and Supergirl's time-lines that converged.
Above Supergirl and Superman. The only time we see H'el have the advantage against Superboy was when Kon-El had yet to truly master his psionics and before Kon-El himself reached the height of his power. [/QUOTE]
👆 so you ignore every glimpse of common sense and logic and say it is just an assumption on my part, while you whole argument is based on your assumption while obviously trying to promote Superboy to a higher tier than he is in right now? Nice.
So if he is damaged in another timeline, and it shows in the other one, we know for sure he fights more fights at once, which costs you more power than normal, because you are in two places, this is in-story and the context is clear, he split himself in differen't timelines. If that isn't powerconsuming....
Superman beat him, Jor-El weakned him but still H'el saw himself more than capable enough to beat Kal and Jor. Also, Kal himself stated that his powers won't last forever even with the armor, so we know he had to draw his strength from the reserves he has and was still capable to defeat H'el with ease, bordering on spite.
Oh, and you said, he defeated Superboy before Kon got an upgrade, he defeated Supergirl too and she got no upgrade at all, yet both defeated H'el in the timelines. So Supergirl defeating H'el without a real upgrade like Kon, even though she wasn't able to defeat him earlier on, means that H'el was weaker than in his very first incarnation, most likely because of his "being everywhere at once" split.
I am long enough here to see what you are up too, your agenda. You think superboy deserves to be ranked higher? More power to you. I know this will end in a circular argument too, so agree to disagree.
In one point you are right, Superboy has grown a bit more powerful in his "special event and special place" which might bring him to HH levels, still below the likes of Superman and MM, by feats and implied power.
As for this thread, in a normal timeline and a normal dimension, both at their best, H'el stomps.
Originally posted by Iskandar
This is an assumption not supported by in-story context. We know H'el had damage being transferred to him from one time-line to another.That's what we know for sure.
Which doesn't work because Superboy has changed drastically since then, and gotten a whole bunch of new feats and upgrades.
Not to mention that this is not just Superboy but Kon-El/Jon Kent fused together.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=600966&pagenumber=2
[QUOTE=ME]http://i.imgur.com/Q5kvTgj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PMCUX3r.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DE7IFfK.jpgWe see the merged Kon-El/Jon Kent easily put the smack down on the other Superboy's disintegrating two of them.
http://i.imgur.com/SDzbej7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5jCSMti.jpgThen we see Kon-El/Jon Kent create a pocket universe and he changes Peter, Michael, and Rose into alternate time-line versions of themselves.
http://i.imgur.com/5jCSMti.jpg
Then Kon-El/Jon Kent does the same with Niti turning her into a freaking Green Lantern.
http://i.imgur.com/P7zFnZZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/csbn5Ip.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qA9rS9i.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q989I4F.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LrBefBf.jpgThen present Jon Kent makes his appearance and is able to separate Kon-El and future Jon Kent.
Which I already posted the context of here.
Which is never outright stated.
Superman #25
http://i.imgur.com/p0L5R0w.jpg
Yes, I am familiar and it happened right after Superboy attacked him in Supergirl #25.
It's because H'el was defeated by Superboy in the time-line he was in, and at the same time defeated by Supergirl in the time-line she was in.
Which is again ignoring that this isn't Kon-El but rather Kon-El/Jon Kent, and that Kon-El has been upgraded since his initial defeat ay the hands of H'el in Superboy #14.
Which only happened after Jor-El drastically weakened H'el by nearly killing him with a device designed specifically to do so. Not because H'el was weakened as a result of being splint into different time-lines.
Superman #25
http://i.imgur.com/xpnR2fg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tZwL824.jpg
Superman being the boyscout that he is tries to save H'el from Jor-El's device but H'el is still horribly mutilated by it.
No we don't. We know H'el split himself and we don't know if that actually weakened him.
Which is the only thing you're actually right about.
Again you're ignoring that Kon-El was much more powerful in Krypton Returns than he was when that happened in H'el on Earth.
We don't see H'el with any of the damage from Superboy and Supergirl's time-lines. This was a different H'el unaffected by either of those two periods of time. The mutilation H'el suffered was caused solely by Jor-El's machine, that tore H'el apart on a molecular level.
It was only Superboy and Supergirl's time-lines that converged.
Above Supergirl and Superman. The only time we see H'el have the advantage against Superboy was when Kon-El had yet to truly master his psionics and before Kon-El himself reached the height of his power. [/QUOTE] Owned.
Originally posted by Iskandar
This is an assumption not supported by in-story context. We know H'el had damage being transferred to him from one time-line to another.That's what we know for sure.
Which doesn't work because Superboy has changed drastically since then, and gotten a whole bunch of new feats and upgrades.
Not to mention that this is not just Superboy but Kon-El/Jon Kent fused together.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=600966&pagenumber=2
[QUOTE=ME]http://i.imgur.com/Q5kvTgj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PMCUX3r.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DE7IFfK.jpgWe see the merged Kon-El/Jon Kent easily put the smack down on the other Superboy's disintegrating two of them.
http://i.imgur.com/SDzbej7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5jCSMti.jpgThen we see Kon-El/Jon Kent create a pocket universe and he changes Peter, Michael, and Rose into alternate time-line versions of themselves.
http://i.imgur.com/5jCSMti.jpg
Then Kon-El/Jon Kent does the same with Niti turning her into a freaking Green Lantern.
http://i.imgur.com/P7zFnZZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/csbn5Ip.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qA9rS9i.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q989I4F.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LrBefBf.jpgThen present Jon Kent makes his appearance and is able to separate Kon-El and future Jon Kent.
Which I already posted the context of here.
Which is never outright stated.
Superman #25
http://i.imgur.com/p0L5R0w.jpg
Yes, I am familiar and it happened right after Superboy attacked him in Supergirl #25.
It's because H'el was defeated by Superboy in the time-line he was in, and at the same time defeated by Supergirl in the time-line she was in.
Which is again ignoring that this isn't Kon-El but rather Kon-El/Jon Kent, and that Kon-El has been upgraded since his initial defeat ay the hands of H'el in Superboy #14.
Which only happened after Jor-El drastically weakened H'el by nearly killing him with a device designed specifically to do so. Not because H'el was weakened as a result of being splint into different time-lines.
Superman #25
http://i.imgur.com/xpnR2fg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tZwL824.jpg
Superman being the boyscout that he is tries to save H'el from Jor-El's device but H'el is still horribly mutilated by it.
No we don't. We know H'el split himself and we don't know if that actually weakened him.
Which is the only thing you're actually right about.
Again you're ignoring that Kon-El was much more powerful in Krypton Returns than he was when that happened in H'el on Earth.
We don't see H'el with any of the damage from Superboy and Supergirl's time-lines. This was a different H'el unaffected by either of those two periods of time. The mutilation H'el suffered was caused solely by Jor-El's machine, that tore H'el apart on a molecular level.
It was only Superboy and Supergirl's time-lines that converged.
Above Supergirl and Superman. The only time we see H'el have the advantage against Superboy was when Kon-El had yet to truly master his psionics and before Kon-El himself reached the height of his power. [/QUOTE]
And yet, Supergirl wasn't even able to hurt him when she was actually amped and Kon's powers were failing at that point. Its not hard to put 2 and 2 together. How does Supergirl goes beating H'el from not even being able to hurt him? She actually broke her hands on him.
😬
Originally posted by abhilegend
And yet, Supergirl wasn't even able to hurt him when she was actually amped and Kon's powers were failing at that point.
Are you talking about H'el on Earth and not Krypton Returns here? You know, that's actually where some of Kon-El's more impressive feats are.
Superboy #16
http://i.imgur.com/aUffSgG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tK6N2Mk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6QmC9dm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/841hX6k.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vOdSzq6.jpg
Destroying the force-field around the Fortress of Solitude which H'el specifically designed with Superboy's powers in mind. This is with Kon's powers restricted by the El family armor.
Superboy #17
http://i.imgur.com/7kelGhp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uqL7Exr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/F35gcMF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DWWfoko.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ym1VT3D.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FQigKti.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q7p7S5H.jpg
Superboy uses his TK to hold his genetic structure together after H'el removes the El family armor from his body.
After that some miniature black holes open right next to Kon, and he is able to ignore them completely and fly away.
Superman #17
http://i.imgur.com/yh0GCRH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cuH0FPo.jpg
Kon-El destroys the Star Chamber something even H'el thought was impossible.
http://i.imgur.com/xNndiU9.jpg
Superboy uses his TK to hold "time shards" closed showing that his powers work on temporal anomalies.
Kon-El did all of this whilst his body was falling apart because of what H'el did back in Superboy #14
Its not hard to put 2 and 2 together. How does Supergirl goes beating H'el from not even being able to hurt him? She actually broke her hands on him.😬
Superboy was also fighting H'el maybe that's why? The damage was transferring in both time-lines and that may have distracted H'el as his focus was at the very least split.
Originally posted by Iskandar
Are you talking about H'el on Earth and not Krypton Returns here? You know, that's actually where some of Kon-El's more impressive feats are.Superboy #16
http://i.imgur.com/aUffSgG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tK6N2Mk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6QmC9dm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/841hX6k.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vOdSzq6.jpgDestroying the force-field around the Fortress of Solitude which H'el specifically designed with Superboy's powers in mind. This is with Kon's powers restricted by the El family armor.
Superboy #17
http://i.imgur.com/7kelGhp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uqL7Exr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/F35gcMF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DWWfoko.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ym1VT3D.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FQigKti.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q7p7S5H.jpgSuperboy uses his TK to hold his genetic structure together after H'el removes the El family armor from his body.
After that some miniature black holes open right next to Kon, and he is able to ignore them completely and fly away.
Superman #17
http://i.imgur.com/yh0GCRH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cuH0FPo.jpgKon-El destroys the Star Chamber something even H'el thought was impossible.
http://i.imgur.com/xNndiU9.jpg
Superboy uses his TK to hold "time shards" closed showing that his powers work on temporal anomalies.
Kon-El did all of this whilst his body was falling apart because of what H'el did back in Superboy #14
Superboy was also fighting H'el maybe that's why? The damage was transferring in both time-lines and that may have distracted H'el as his focus was at the very least split.
It was due to both H'el weakening and the damage being transferred. Simple as that.
