Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
LOL, he clearly is.He only had the help of two people that mattered, and one of them only got that strong after Obito died(Kakashi, when he became the strongest in the series for a few chapters).
[b]He was able to warp out of her gravity pull and rip her phucking arm off,
AFTER fighting the ten tails, Jyuubito, Jyuubidara, AND her for a while. That clearly proves him to be AT LEAST her equal.It's not really PIS or CIS at this point. It's happened too often to be chalked as anything other than luck. But it's still a non-factor, for all intents and purposes. [/B]
LOL
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/687/7
they weren't even in the gravity dimension anymore when he did that
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/687/3
And her chakra was really low at the time so her durability was a lot lower
It is PIS/CIS cuz there were so many inconsistencies and her abilities were forgotten. Her ability to absorb all attacks was forgotten and she didn't send them immediately to her most dangerous dimensions like the gravity and acid world.
After her upgrade the only thing he had going for him in speed was surpassed by Kaguya as well.
There were many times Naruto would have been dead without help as well.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No. He didn't.Naruto wasn't getting hurt at all by Kaguya. In fact, all she accomplished at that point was looking dumb by failing to a jutsu that Ebisu was able to overcome, and wasting a ton of chakra.
Naruto, when being serious, straight up warped out of her gravity field, and ripped her damn arm off.
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Naruto was almost killed by Kaguya a few times before being saved. And that is with help and PIS/CIS.
Wrong lol.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Juubito unquestionably dwarfs current Naruto in terms of power output,
Are we sure? Naruto's Truth Ball Rasenshuriken are super powerful, and he can throw several at once.
both with the stronger Goudama,
Besides his less creative use of them, how are Natto's inferior?
and chakra claws.
Naruto's chakra claws were almost on par with Kaguya's 80 Gods, which could effortlessly rip apart Perfect Susano'o.
He also has a ton more variety since he could rely on all the Bijuu.
Yep. He has Magnet Release, Lava Release, Steam Release, and more.
Add that with his Shadow Clones and Naruto has a perfect blend of power, speed, and variety.
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But if Juubito created the six point barrier and blasted the insides with Juubidama them I'm not sure what Naruto could conceivably do to protect himself.
Juubito himself demonstrated that Truth Balls are capable of shielding from it.
If he engages in a similar chakra tug of war then Obito would probably win since it took an entire army to save the Bijuu and even a weakened Obito could steal some chakra from the much stronger Juubidara.
True... Maybe.
Juubito might win simply because he wields the "full" power of the Sage whereas Naruto only wields half.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Are we sure? Naruto's Truth Ball Rasenshuriken are super powerful, and he can throw several at once.
They are faster certainly. But they aren't stronger. The Bijuudamasengan are very clearly charged up by Kurama and his Bijuudama are significantly smaller than the Juubi's, which is what Obito logically uses.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Besides his less creative use of them, how are Natto's inferior?
Better showings simply. 4 Juubidama blew up in his face and his shield didn't even so much as crack.
While Naruto's kinda suck if I'm being brutally honest. The staffs he made were stopped by Sage lightning and three of them destroyed by imperfect Susano'o arrows. Sure they probably had senjutsu of some kind in them but so did these attacks and Obito basically laughed them off.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Naruto's chakra claws were almost on par with Kaguya's 80 Gods, which could effortlessly rip apart Perfect Susano'o.
Neat. Obito's effortlessly ripped apart the Hokage Barrier, something that could withstand Bijuudama from the Juubi itself. The same Bijuudama that destroyed Madara's Perfect Susano'o.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yep. He has Magnet Release, Lava Release, Steam Release, and more.
Yeah a good way of looking at this thread is which is stronger: all the Bijuu vs the Juubi.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Juubito himself demonstrated that Truth Balls are capable of shielding from it.
Yeah Obito did. Naruto not so much. He never uses them that way and he really should have. I'm assuming they're not as strong.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
True... Maybe.Juubito might win simply because he wields the "full" power of the Sage whereas Naruto only wields half.
Eh. It's so weird how Kishi set it up because Juubito simply is more impressive than Juubidara. Hell, base Madara is more impressive than Juubidara. Juubidara was man handled by Guy, cut in half by Sasuke, and got stabbed twice from Obito/Zetsu.
Base Madara beat all of the Bijuu, killed Naruto and Sasuke, and then effortlessly took control of the Juubi.
Juubidara was wrecked by Guy, Base Naruto, and Sasuke(who wasn't using Susano'o). He needed his second Rinnegan to contend and even then he found it easier to run away and use the IS. He then got stabbed by Zetsu and Obito when Base Madara was dancing around Tobirama.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Base Madara beat all of the Bijuu, killed Naruto and Sasuke, and then effortlessly took control of the Juubi.Juubidara was wrecked by Guy, Base Naruto, and Sasuke(who wasn't using Susano'o). He needed his second Rinnegan to contend and even then he found it easier to run away and use the IS. He then got stabbed by Zetsu and Obito when Base Madara was dancing around Tobirama.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
They are faster certainly. But they aren't stronger. The Bijuudamasengan are very clearly charged up by Kurama and his Bijuudama are significantly smaller than the Juubi's, which is what Obito logically uses.
Terrible logic, considering how the Truth Ball Shurikens absolutely dwarf Kurama's Biju Balls.
Better showings simply. 4 Juubidama blew up in his face and his shield didn't even so much as crack.
I don't see why it would be any different in Naruto's case.
While Naruto's kinda suck if I'm being brutally honest. The staffs he made were stopped by Sage lightning
I actually thought he was using the rod to stop the lightning, not the other way around.
and three of them destroyed by imperfect Susano'o arrows. Sure they probably had senjutsu of some kind in them but so did these attacks and Obito basically laughed them off.
I always took that to mean that Naruto could no longer sustain them, not that they couldn't handle Susano'o Arrows. After all, he was losing Hagoromo's powers; he could only summon three of them to begin with.
Neat. Obito's effortlessly ripped apart the Hokage Barrier, something that could withstand Bijuudama from the Juubi itself.
Kaguya's Eighty Gods is stated to have the greatest attack power of any technique in the series in the 4th databook apparently though.
And rightfully so, really. The shockwaves from the blows colliding with Naruto's were enough to form caves the size of cathedrals, and she could fire 80 of them off in rapid succession. Paired with the Byakugan, Perfect Susano'o is complete child's play before it.
The same Bijuudama that destroyed Madara's Perfect Susano'o
Fair enough, but they're still far slower.
Yeah Obito did. Naruto not so much. He never uses them that way and he really should have. I'm assuming they're not as strong.
I'm thinking it's more "Naruto doesn't know how to use these things".
Eh. It's so weird how Kishi set it up because Juubito simply is more impressive than Juubidara.
I don't think so. His use of Truth Balls is far superior, granted, but his actual abilities are inferior in every facet. Speed, strength, taijutsu skill, ninjutsu variety, ninjutsu power, Truth Ball number, Rinnegan techs, etc. etc.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
In Juubidara's defense Naruto was never able to actually take out a Limbo clone w/o help. Even when Naruto tried to match them, Sasuke comments that the Limbo clones were still hanging out while It was being cast. Gai would've probably been killed by goudama if it weren't for Kakashi and friends too.
Lots of stuff in this thread that's being used without context.
All in all I do agree that Juubito is more "powerful" than Naruto; it's pretty obvious given that he is the Juubi Jin, possesses the power of the Sage, and has more Truth Spheres.
That being said, I want to side Naruto for the fight. While it's arguable whether or not he's faster/stronger than Juubito, he possesses the superior combat techniques; Shadow Clones, Bijudama Rasenshuriken, and the Biju's Kekei Genkai techniques are better than anything Juubito can put out IMO.
That being said, Hokage!Naruto obviously loses soundly.
Bump; according to the 4th databook, Naruto's physical & sensory abilities are equal or greater than Madara's--which also mean they're greater than Obito's.
Considering how Obito doesn't really use his Rinnegan, we can assume that this is a SPSM vs SPSM battle. Obito has the advantages of stronger chakra, regeneration, and far greater mastery of the TSB's. Naruto has the advantages of superior physicals, greater jutsu variety, and the ability to create shadow clones. With that in mind, who wins?