Injustice Superman-Was he wrong?
So I've been reading Injustice from beginning to end, and...I'm not seeing the problem with what Superman is doing. It was the provocation's from those who tried to stop him that made him increasingly more agitated and hostile. Kidnapping his parents and all that.
What are all your opinions of Superman's proactive behavior towards crime? Is he wrong? Would there be a better approach?
Originally posted by Damborgson
But not all of them. It's like stopping your neighbor from beating his wife but letting the neighbor on the block next over continue to do it because "beatings happen"
Again, there are police men and other heroes in the universe to take care of those people. Wanting to stop every crime on Earth is a compulsion of a megalomaniac. The idea of having Superman, a literal alien, judging human affairs at a large scale is quite intrusive wouldn't you think?
I've read every Injustice comic so far and also played through the game.
I don't think that Superman was wrong at all with his approach after Joker did what he did, but then the Injustice Superman got annoying especially in the most recent issue, where he Heat Vision'ed through Black Canarys belly, even though she was pregnant.
It's just too much random violence for the shock value, which was fresh at the beginning and here and there very well justified like for example Alfred beating Superman into a pulp, but so many other instances were absolutely not needed like Superman killing Green Arrow, breaking Batman's back and now most recently killing Black Canary's unborn child.
All of that continued in the game, where he Heat Vision'ed through Shazam's skull and broke Lex Luthor's neck (who for the convenience of the already thing plot, was the only guy in the universe, whose morals were totally the opposite... Lex Luthor was straight up a good guy, the entire time and friends with Superman in that universe).
So Superman's idea to enforce freedom is a good one and would make for a great story, but his insanity is taking it too far and I feel that the comic itself is leaving too many things out, which would make for interesting dialogues, like for example the one time where Superman stopped Batman from killing the Joker, after Joker killed Jason. Superman said that Batman had to be the better man and all that shit, but now where something bad happened to Superman he killed Joker and didn't listen to any reason at all and is overall taking it way too far.
That "taking it to far" also made him take the fight versus the Green Lanterns to Earth to use poppulation as human shields.
At this point the Injustice Superman is straight up a madman, who kinda lost track of his original ideas and intentions, when he started enforcing the freedom.
If you want to read a good story about heroes killing bad guys, then read the first ABSOLUTION volume from the publisher Avatar Press. It's very gory and so on, but is in my opinion the best portrayal of a vigilante, who starts killing his opponents.
Injustice is not the prime example of a comic that follows the same idea.
Originally posted by Bentley
Again, there are police men and other heroes in the universe to take care of those people. Wanting to stop every crime on Earth is a compulsion of a megalomaniac. The idea of having Superman, a literal alien, judging human affairs at a large scale is quite intrusive wouldn't you think?
I think that if my village were about to be slaughtered, I'd like Superman, or any hero for that matter to stop it. And I mean STOP IT. Like beating them up so they can come back next week and finish me off isn't what I mean. Kill them please. Or give me the means to do it myself like Wonder Woman did.
Superman's an alien, with a human upbringing. He's basically a human.
Originally posted by Damborgson
I think that if my village were about to be slaughtered, I'd like Superman, or any hero for that matter to stop it. And I mean STOP IT. Like beating them up so they can come back next week and finish me off isn't what I mean. Kill them please. Or give me the means to do it myself like Wonder Woman did.Superman's an alien, with a human upbringing. He's basically a human.
If Superman is essentially a human, then you have to accept it's not morally sound to put all that responsability upon him. If the system cannot deal with human mass murderers, that's not Kal's responsability. You could do a missive and enter politics to have super villains killed instead of captured, we have systems for that.
Let's not try to use a nice alien as a magic wand to ignore our own responsability 👆
How exactly is it not Kal's responsibility? That said, in Injustice he had plenty of help, but I find it very hard to believe anyone would choose dying before losing moral soundness. How many thousands die before Kal's political attempts even get looked at? Towns were getting shelled, children were getting incinerated, the only thing that truly set Clark over the edge was the violent opposition he received in my opinion. Why did he receive it? Because it's human nature, but on paper, Clark saved A LOT more people with his attempts to stop all war and such, than he did as just Superman before.
Originally posted by Enzeru
I've read every Injustice comic so far and also played through the game.I don't think that Superman was wrong at all with his approach after Joker did what he did, but then the Injustice Superman got annoying especially in the most recent issue, where he Heat Vision'ed through Black Canarys belly, even though she was pregnant.
She already had the child like 5 issues eariler. Remember Harley giving her a muzzle?
Originally posted by Enzeru
It's just too much random violence for the shock value, which was fresh at the beginning and here and there very well justified like for example Alfred beating Superman into a pulp, but so many other instances were absolutely not needed like Superman killing Green Arrow, breaking Batman's back and now most recently killing Black Canary's unborn child.
I thought Alfred headbutting Supes was awesome and made sense. They had to show what the pills were capable of and show why Superman had reason to worry about the resistance. Also Alfred isn't gonna sit back and let Bruce get crippled without so much as a howdy do if he's able.
Killing Arrow had to be done seeing as how he was dead in the game, but it also allowed us to see Superman going down the path of no return. It can also be argued that he didn't mean to since it wasn't a one shot deal. Either way it allowed him to no longer be able to turn back and allowed Ollie to go out like a champ
And Dinah was no longer pregnant.
Originally posted by Enzeru
All of that continued in the game, where he Heat Vision'ed through Shazam's skull and broke Lex Luthor's neck (who for the convenience of the already thing plot, was the only guy in the universe, whose morals were totally the opposite... Lex Luthor was straight up a good guy, the entire time and friends with Superman in that universe).
He needed to restore order and obedience. Lex, his best friend, ally and all around "good guy" as you pointed out was a traitor and tried to kill Superman. Tried to KILL Superman. From Superman's POV Lex needed to die and I'm sure that level of betrayal was too much for him. I mean he already lost Bruce. And Shazam was "speaking out" and Superman needed to restore his "control". I thought him killing both of them made perfect sence plot wise tho i don't like how Billy was treated as fodder.
Originally posted by Enzeru
So Superman's idea to enforce freedom is a good one and would make for a great story, but his insanity is taking it too far and I feel that the comic itself is leaving too many things out, which would make for interesting dialogues, like for example the one time where Superman stopped Batman from killing the Joker, after Joker killed Jason. Superman said that Batman had to be the better man and all that shit, but now where something bad happened to Superman he killed Joker and didn't listen to any reason at all and is overall taking it way too far.
That "taking it to far" also made him take the fight versus the Green Lanterns to Earth to use poppulation as human shields.
Him and Batman did talk tho and it made sense i thought. Supes was like "If you had my power you'd be doing the same thing" and Bats countered with " you're right but you are supposed to be better than me" or something to that effect. It showed that they both understood the other side but were just at odds over the morality of it.
By the time the GLs came Superman was very unhinged and would do just about anything to keep his power.
Originally posted by Enzeru
At this point the Injustice Superman is straight up a madman, who kinda lost track of his original ideas and intentions, when he started enforcing the freedom.
That's the point. He started out with very good intentions and was blinded to the negativity of it. Then he has to delude himself to continue. "The good outweighs the bad" and all that jazz.
Originally posted by juggerman
She already had the child like 5 issues eariler. Remember Harley giving her a muzzle?
Damn, you're right! I totally forgot! Good for Black Canary :-)
Originally posted by juggerman
Killing Arrow had to be done seeing as how he was dead in the game, but it also allowed us to see Superman going down the path of no return. It can also be argued that he didn't mean to since it wasn't a one shot deal. Either way it allowed him to no longer be able to turn back and allowed Ollie to go out like a champ.
Yeah, that is clear, but my problem was the lack of character development.
It's like Bendis, who turned the Sentry into a mental midget from one comic to another, without actually portraying a character falling apart.
Injustice Superman became EVIL way too fast.
I understand and agree with him killing the Joker. That's something Batman should have done in regular comics long time ago and which is one of the main reasons I absolutely hate Batman and the DC universe in general, but ...
... Green Arrow had no intentions of harming Superman's parents. It was an accident and Superman vastly overreacted if we consider what he had to say prior and after that incident. He was still trying to play everything safe and pretend that he was doing the right thing.
And then there was now the newest Injustice comic.
At this point that comic is simplistic torture porn and I'm not enjoying it at all anymore. There is barely any story behind it anymore, just a way for a character to fly from point A to point B and rip the arms of another character out.
It's not about right and wrong anymore, it's only about violence.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Injustice Superman became EVIL way too fast.
I disagree here. It was KILLING ME waiting for him to do something even a little bad. I was like "stop being a goody two shoes already and rip someone's face off!!!" I like the development they did tho. All his talks with Flash trying to figure out where the line really should be was great for his arc into darkness.
Originally posted by Enzeru
... Green Arrow had no intentions of harming Superman's parents. It was an accident and Superman vastly overreacted if we consider what he had to say prior and after that incident. He was still trying to play everything safe and pretend that he was doing the right thing.
Mirror Master had no intentions of harming his parents either. Think about it from Clack's POV, he lost his wife and child due to his own actions, tried to make the world a better place and was fought every step of the way by the world, his best friend(Bruce) was trying to undermind him and turn his allies against him, had a member of his team kidnapped and replaced by a spy, was tricked by the government so Batman's team could break into his home, and was nearly assissinated by Captian Atom. All this in a very short period of time and Atom almost killed him minutes earlier. So yeah i can understand him being a little miffed ad overreacting. Anyone would. The problem is that when Superman loses control, even for a second, someone could die.
I think Ollie's death was a great way to show how far Superman has fallen. And it didn't happen until the latter part of year 1 so it wasn't just a switch that was flipped to get there. He was consistantly going down deeper and deeper into this pit.
Originally posted by Enzeru
And then there was now the newest Injustice comic.At this point that comic is simplistic torture porn and I'm not enjoying it at all anymore. There is barely any story behind it anymore, just a way for a character to fly from point A to point B and rip the arms of another character out.
It's not about right and wrong anymore, it's only about violence.
I do agree that it's getting more and more violent but they are in the middle of a war. Wars are normally violent and with superpowered beings it's likely to be even more so.
And that is a lot of story going on right now imo. Gordon just died or is actively dying which Barbara has to deal with on top of co-ordianting this massive assult on the evil dictator, you have Sinestro fooling everyone into thinking he is a changed man with beautiful set ups like Despero, you have Batman tending to his back while still trying to pull strings behind the scenes, Harley Quinn being Harley Quinn, Hal being conflicted and falling from grace to become the mighty Sinestro Corps, Cyborg is decomissioned, Flash is being tortured, the League is captured and Superman is a FREAKING YELLOW LANTERN!!!!! I'm sure i'm missing some other stuff but HOLY SHITBALLS that's some good stuff!
Maybe i'm just easily pleased but i don't thing the story is bad. Could it be better? Oh yeah but it serves it's purpose and it's entertaining to boot. Might just have to agree to disagree here my friend.