Battlezone: BEATBOKS VS PSYCHO GUNDAM

Lmao

So that one feat that you admit is missing pages of information is not only better than Charles Xavier but equal or better than someone TEN TIMES his superior? How the fck can you be so bold, you are aware of their on-panel careers, right? This Cerullas guy is already half the makeup of Dark nebula according to you and his origin so them being able to remain in psychic rapport (citation needed) doesn't really mean very much.

Also:

this happened in the OP:

They're minds are "altered in a way" Dark nebula will be "unfamiliar with" not to mention Legion is lurking in there.

Originally posted by beatboks

to recap so far.
1. You've not offered an effective counter for my initial onslaught of dark fire. Your "impenetrable bunker" has nothing to prove it can withstand a planetary level attack because it's never faced one. It's also never faced a soul based attack. Sorry dude, human nukes just don't cut it they aren't even continental and neither is any attack you've shown on it.
2. Any Attempt by Legion to assist any member of your team achieving a tertiary goal, diverts his focus from the bunker and will likely cost you him. Since most of your attacks and counters rely on him (port Itachi behind Nebula, protect Itachi from DN's TK, etc etc) to proceed with any pretty much ensures he falls and leaves your team to face mine without him. Since the defense of this bunker is already dubious at best against the level of threat it faces not a good stance to take.
3. Your attempt to flank just simply fails. Every member of my team will be aware of this being your choice of action before you even enter battle and will be able to deal.
4. Even if that flanking isn't one of the things we saw in advance you can only achieve it if your so far out of range for it not to matter (because DN's TP rang vastly exceeds that of a sword soul based or not.
5. There is also the highly dubious nature of your prep. You only have 5 minutes and some of the vids you loaded as examples show a few minutes each for each feat. Honestly I have my doubts you can even achieve that much in the allotted time frame. By my estimation your overall prep takes more like 7 minutes for some characters and others can't do what you want until your team mates have. You'll notice I really haven't committed to much at all because we have so little time.

None of your attacks have thus far succeeded and you've actually not offered a viable counter to some of mine. Your prep is questionable within the time frame. Considering I'm only using two of my team of three to engage you and you summoned how many minions? that is quite astounding.

Holy there is sooo much spin doctoring here to devalue things I've posted in VIDEO form.

You're questioning how much time my prep takes when there is literally a video of it taking place that's shorter than the allotted time, and you actually have your characters in your own prep break the time allowed yourself?

I have to address this stuff in pieces

Originally posted by beatboks

to recap so far.
1. You've not offered an effective counter for my initial onslaught of dark fire. Your "impenetrable bunker" has nothing to prove it can withstand a planetary level attack because it's never faced one. It's also never faced a soul based attack. Sorry dude, human nukes just don't cut it they aren't even continental and neither is any attack you've shown on it.

Originally posted by beatboks
3. Your attempt to flank just simply fails. Every member of my team will be aware of this being your choice of action before you even enter battle and will be able to deal.
4. Even if that flanking isn't one of the things we saw in advance you can only achieve it if your so far out of range for it not to matter (because DN's TP rang vastly exceeds that of a sword soul based or not.

I think we will have to call this soon. This is starting to feel like taking candy from a baby.

So that one feat that you admit is missing pages of information is not only better than Charles Xavier but equal or better than someone TEN TIMES his superior?

1. DN has passively detected the presence of minds "foreign to him" from half a solar system away. Xavier can't locate a single Mutant in his own city actively without the help of technology. Cropping a panel out of my scan that is of a Callien warrior (not Dark nebula) picking up Cerellus' TP message(Cerllus being half of DN and the half that gives him his psionic abilities) from light years away actually AIDS my cause. Thanks - but i really didn't need the assist. This actually lends to the second thing I'm using TP for.

2. DN has psionically defended himself from a psionic attack of over 10 billion psionics simultaneously assaulting him who were at the level that they could detect and send TP messages light years (as you've just proven on my behalf by dropping and highlighting the text). The 10 billion is a conservative figure sine their race has has become so overpopulated they require multiple colonies to support them.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4136311-caileu+overpopulated.jpg

Since Earth currently supports almost 7 billion people the need of even two colonies implies at least 21

3. The only other use of DN's TP is a mind link during prep to allow all three to see what the others do.

So let's assume for the sake of argument that each Callean is 1/10 the psionic of Charles and 1/100 that of legion. The fact that DN shielded himself from 10 billion of them That would make his defensive capacity capable of handling 10 million Legion PSI assaults.

Let's be extremely generous and say that a single Callean is 1/1000 that of charles and 1/100000 that of legion. In that instance it would only take an attack of 10 times Legion to match what DN withstood in the scans in my OP. He fell of course in that scan but not before invoking his full power heritage and unleashing the full power of the dark fire.

They're minds are "altered in a way" Dark nebula will be "unfamiliar with" not to mention Legion is lurking in there.[/qupte] being unfamiliar didn't prevent DN from sensing and tracking the presence of the space ship containing the aliens who As you've so beautifully highlighted for me "couldn't recognize the changed psionic patterns of their fellow Calien because they were altered" They couldn't recognize Cerellus but mark/DN still recognized ( In the fourth panel of the scan you said doesn’t “remotely” portrey a powerful TPer Mark tells Mikeljonn that “this time I think his friends are coming for him”.
So dude your talisman locking away personalities won't do bupkiss for you.
[quote] Holy there is sooo much spin doctoring here to devalue things I've posted in VIDEO form.

You're questioning how much time my prep takes when there is literally a video of it taking place that's shorter than the allotted time, and you actually have your characters in your own prep break the time allowed yourself?

Conversly your first video (that goes for 4 minutes) brings back a total of 8 warriors Of that video he only used 3 minutes actually summoning. However you referred to bring back an "entire army" if it takes a minute or so to bring back 4 or 5 I'd guess an army takes a LOT longer. Your first video alone questions the prep time if your bring back more than a dozen (which is certainly a far cry from an army, squadron maybe even unit- BUT NO ARMY). Baring is mind that Nagato can't "use his ability to kill Whitebeard so that he can be prepared for edo tensei" until he is somoned (he wasn't one of your three characters), Kabuto still has to zombify Whitebread (amazing how that vid is now removed, did the 3 minutes plus the 4 come to 7 like i said??), and Legion has to also have time to mind link them all after summoning.

So Nabuto was doing 7 minutes worth of stuff and the rest of the stuff your team does can't happen until he's done. Hence why I question it???
I 'm guessing you took this prep from something you prepared for the tourney and forgot the changes you made to our rules. As I recall the the concept behind the tourney was an extra 5 minutes prep on top of the standard 5 for every character you picked that was unique. When I questioned you on if that gave me 20 minutes because of having three unknowns you said lets stick to the standard 5.

beatboks wrote on Sep 21st, 2014 05:44 PM:
Cool let me know how you want to proceed.
Battlefield, battle conditions, what allowed in prep (don't want to repeat what I did in curry's tournament), what gear is allowed for my street leveler, etc. if you want me to post or to PM someone else what ever.

I vaguely recall something about extra prep time for choosing non used characters (which I think I've done) 5 mins for each if I'm not mistaken on top of the 5 mins we started with (20 in total)

psycho gundam wrote on Sep 22nd, 2014 02:18 PM:
Idunno, I was thinking the rules are for picking characters but the battle itself we can do are own way, for instance things like not being able to power our characters up to skyfather or whatever is good cause then it doesn't ruin the spirit of the match.

How bout: keep the prep 5 minutes in one lab/HQ of a character and you can grab stuff that they would NORMALLY have that's considered standard and then the battle area is like Manhattan just not populated? That keeps things less complicated for you.

Either of us can make the thread and then we will send our prep to a 3rd party then after that point we just argue till it's over 🙂

This is for fun

The whole reason I picked Terry was to make really good use of that 20 minutes of prep. The whole reason I'm not using him much is because you said change it to only 5. Not that it appears I need him.

Your "bio-electric lightning" storm isn't supported in any way to say it's anything beyond terrestrial lightning. The demons it were used on are featless in your own words, and Legion has casually taken Storm's best lighting blasts without any effort and I put up actual scans of him multitasking his powers without effort including shielding and attacking. His psychic bunker was passive and he caught the Blackbird while within it as well as teleporting the entire x-men gold team.

Yeah no proof at all, because Storm can do all those things with terrestrial lightning can't she? Come on dude that is just pathetic. It's not even an argument. DN has two powers.

The Psionic power given him by the Cerellus half of him.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4136309-1546_3340_04b.jpg

and the dark fire of Mark Medula's heritage being descended from witches (something he discovered when Chaos sent him back to the salem witch hunts)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4136329-ancestors+witches.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4136328-absorbing+dark+fire.jpg
The second one shows Mark absorbing the darkfire back. When he arrived in the past he was depowered. this was rectified when he absorbed his ancestors blast and the ancestor was depowered instead.

We're going around in cirles so I'm going to streamline my "plot". You said a couple of posts ago that my viewing the furure relies on plot, so here is mine.

as the last post was getting over character limit. here is the end of it

Plot 1
Let's assume for the sake of argument that your bunker is actually strong enough to withstand Marks Darkfire assault. Not that you've proven it but I'm being lenient. In my prep i saw that this was the case. During this prep my team were also mind linked and Terry Sloane (the genius) saw this from Mark's past.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4136310-1546_9821_05b.jpg
Southern Cross is a vastly weaker Tker than Dark nebula (I can throw up the scans where SC refers to DN "having that much power" if required, but lets face it, it showed here that SC wasn't even testing DN. SC however was a TKer who always used Suptlety to achieve what sheer power could not. he got hold of the frequency of Marks TK and caused a feed back that put Mark down. It hurt SC as well but he recovered much quicker. I can also show the scans where DN fought along side SC using similar techniques on the frequency of other things.

So my team knows that (and this is a very BIG IF) a TK shield stops DN's darkfire assault and alters attack. Instead just as shown here DN locks onto the frequency of Legion's TK and causes a feedback loop that puts him down. Southern Cross who ahsn't a single feat even close to 100 tons can do that to a TKer with feats in the 60,000 ton range. The difference between Legion and DN in TK isn't that great (please notice I said TK not TP).

Your bunker is down, your porting behind DN is also. No bunker to protect you now so even Comet's blasts are ripping your entire team to shreds. Once DN recovers (as he will faster than Legion due to the fact that he has already experienced this type of thing on the receiving and and the feedback to the attacker isn't as great) he cuts loose with Dark Fire 9defined in my scans as the power of death itself) and obliterates your team once and for all.

/thread game over.
Ready for votes when you are. Call on what ever judges you decided on. In the interests of fairness, I'll point out that i did ask Leo and Digi in pm a question and as such may have made them aware of things that I didn't discuss in debate. Not that I think for a moment either of them would ever pass judgement on anything other than what was said IN THREAD, thought you should know before deciding on judges (if you haven't already)

I'm going to post tomorrow or some time late tonight

Friday takes precedence

Originally posted by psycho gundam
I'm going to post tomorrow or some time late tonight

Friday takes precedence

Cool, Before you do I need to make a correction. On one thing you were correct that I said you weren't.

In going through old issues to gather scans both for this and two other tourney's I'm using DN I found these three referances to his battle with the people of Cailea
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4137007-1+cerellus+shown+cailea+destroyeds.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/3736037-trial+of+dn+5.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/3681260-scan0001.jpg
Each one referred to the total destruction of the planet, which wasn't how I remembered it as I remembered mark still standing in the arena he was attacked in at the end. I went back to the issue and
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4137011-trial+of+dn+6.jpg
Said arena was pretty much in ruins.

So obviously if I attack with darkfire straight up, full out there wont be much of "Manhatan" left for Terry to find resources in as you said.

I honestly miss-remembered it as less than that.

^ I was definitely going to get to that. A few other things need to be cleared up as well.

Originally posted by beatboks
1. DN has passively detected the presence of minds "foreign to him" from half a solar system away. Xavier can't locate a single Mutant in his own city actively without the help of technology.

You're comparing unlike things which actually take more effort to do.

Originally posted by beatboks
2. DN has psionically defended himself from a psionic attack of over 10 billion psionics simultaneously assaulting him who were at the level that they could detect and send TP messages light years (as you've just proven on my behalf by dropping and highlighting the text). The 10 billion is a conservative figure sine their race has has become so overpopulated they require multiple colonies to support them.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4136311-caileu+overpopulated.jpg

Since Earth currently supports almost 7 billion people the need of even two colonies implies at least 21

3. The only other use of DN's TP is a mind link during prep to allow all three to see what the others do.

So let's assume for the sake of argument that each Callean is 1/10 the psionic of Charles and 1/100 that of legion. The fact that DN shielded himself from 10 billion of them That would make his defensive capacity capable of handling 10 million Legion PSI assaults.

Let's be extremely generous and say that a single Callean is 1/1000 that of charles and 1/100000 that of legion. In that instance it would only take an attack of 10 times Legion to match what DN withstood in the scans in my OP. He fell of course in that scan but not before invoking his full power heritage and unleashing the full power of the dark fire.

You can even see that people even had time to run out of the stadium before the city was engulfed by the dark fire. Legion has ample time to reinforce his shielding and I posted him in like 3 different shields.

And the planet itself was fine, though things were leveled

But all those characters weren't killed, simply free of their physical bodies

That's the FULL POWER of Dark nebula unfettered.

But Beatboks said this on another forum:

"It looks like a planet busting feat The pertinent Context here is as follows.

DN was locked in Psionic battle with the entire race all over the planet in Question ( well he was being assaulted by them any way)
He was almost destroyed in fact it said his body had been consumed so this a pure energy version of him, which we never saw before of after.
He was VERY desperate and fighting for not just his but the survival of everything he held dear even his wife and child.
All this combined make it a feat almost impossible to reproduce ( well the odds are astronomical anyway)" - Beatboks1

Nobody is even attacking Dark nebula out right, well aside from Itachi and the sword of sealing that is. here's a character sneaking up on Dark nebula from behind

Legion's dome will be fine and all the characters within it

Originally posted by beatboks
Plot 1
Let's assume for the sake of argument that your bunker is actually strong enough to withstand Marks Darkfire assault. Not that you've proven it but I'm being lenient. In my prep i saw that this was the case. During this prep my team were also mind linked and Terry Sloane (the genius) saw this from Mark's past.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4136310-1546_9821_05b.jpg
Southern Cross is a vastly weaker Tker than Dark nebula (I can throw up the scans where SC refers to DN "having that much power" if required, but lets face it, it showed here that SC wasn't even testing DN. SC however was a TKer who always used Suptlety to achieve what sheer power could not. he got hold of the frequency of Marks TK and caused a feed back that put Mark down. It hurt SC as well but he recovered much quicker. I can also show the scans where DN fought along side SC using similar techniques on the frequency of other things.

So my team knows that (and this is a very BIG IF) a TK shield stops DN's darkfire assault and alters attack. Instead just as shown here DN locks onto the frequency of Legion's TK and causes a feedback loop that puts him down. Southern Cross who ahsn't a single feat even close to 100 tons can do that to a TKer with feats in the 60,000 ton range. The difference between Legion and DN in TK isn't that great (please notice I said TK not TP).

You can't have that feat as part of your repertoire.

The missing videos and the questioning of my prep

Videos on Youtube get taken down all the time especially stuff with anime in them. I think the jump in views may have made those videos get taken down or something as more than one of the ones I found for this battlezone were deleted.

Also Kabuto already had those zombies prepared so the only one my prep time would be needed for would be for Whitebeard.

He has more that I haven't even talked about but they are on the field:

YouTube video

Whitebeard as a zombie wasn't standard for him to have so I used the preparation time to incorporate him into the team and I assure you it takes less than 5 minutes to do. It takes like a minute:

And then he and all the others like him will revive from any and all damage infinitely.

I missed the last part of that sequence.

After the population were in psychic form they teleported Dark nebula to Earth

Legion can also teleport others freely

Teleports them to Mandripoor which is a nation on the far side of Asia, so they were casually teleported from the Palestinian desert thousands of miles away.

Originally posted by beatboks
similar in type only the magnitude is vastly less and based on teh second page possibly incredibly vastly less. His statement that he "parked it" sounds like he simply took control of the stick which would be like a few pound TK feat and may be why they "lost control".

Yeah right. Notice how the X-men were INSIDE the Blackbird and then spontaneously the Backbird vanished when Legion "parked it". Storm didn't even get to finish her sentance.

One more thing about Legion's shielding

This was before he was made complete by Shadow king (even talking of Jack Wayne's personality in his body), he Can even create individual shields for lots of characters against the power of Proteus

Legion was at his weakest and untrained when he did this:

Moirra McTaggart cannot kill Legion (just in case there is further confusion.....)

Originally posted by leonidas
He also destroyed an entire civilization

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/3736034-trial+of+dn+2.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/3736035-trial+of+dn+3.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/3736037-trial+of+dn+5.jpg

The same dude and his constitutes are in each panel there is concerning the attack on Dark nebula, nobody else got panel time:

Not a coincidence at all.

They were the ones attacking him, not the entirety of those attending the trial. Dark nebula "killed" them all but they took him to his limits first, and like in the scene with the rubble surrounding him he's left completely bewildered and open to attack.

Add that to him getting owned by a guy whose

Originally posted by beatboks
Southern Cross is a vastly weaker Tker than Dark nebula

Originally posted by psycho gundam
You can't use feats of completely separate characters as if they were your own, especially if they were used against your own characters lmao

You can't have that feat as part of your repertoire.

You brought up some interesting points that i will address. maybe we have one last post each and them PM a summary to Leo (if your agreeable)

Not even the point since he had a mindlink with lilandra and they were able to meet. The place Earth sits in one of the spiral arms of the milky way galaxy to the outer rim of the galaxy is a lot farther than the distance Dark nebula and Cerullas' mindlink was and then you add the fact that the Shi'ar galaxy is way farther out in space than that

You're comparing unlike things which actually take more effort to do.

Settle down.That entire population didn't attack him all at once in that arena. It's capacity is probably 30,000 and they shattered his mental defenses and all he had left was to invoke his entire power that spread across the planet from the stadium and burned their bodies. Now you really don't know how many it would take to do what they achieved, maybe half that number or less, all you know is that he was completely consumed.

I originally thought the exact same thing about the trial re the planets destruction. however as you can clearly see in each of the retelling
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4139924-cailea+destroyed.jpg

There are bits of planet flying everywhere. The second panel is actually from the issue Trial of DN itself which at the time for some reason I overlooked. The planet was clearly spit us-sunder by his attack. This was a prophesy of the Cailean people. It was also a future shown to cerellus by Marks descendant from the far future (where the first panel of the three comes from).

The mere thought that the Cailean people would not give there everything to destroy the being they believe to be their final bringer of death confirmed by a future one of their own most respected members has seen is laughable at best.

Of course the entire population didn't fit in the arena, but they did attack him. Or are you suggesting that a ace that has conquered other planets would hold back attack capability against someone they know and believe can destroy them. trying to label images as a character from a race that are all alike in appearance is a bit of a joke to sell a point. Every male looks very much like Cerellus (almost every character in each panel that you didn't number looks very similar to those you did) and every female very much the same too.

But all those characters weren't killed, simply free of their physical bodies

Nobody is even attacking Dark nebula out right, well aside from Itachi and the sword of sealing that is. here's a character sneaking up on Dark nebula from behind

here's a character sneaking up on Dark nebula from behind

1. The "guy" sneaking up on DN is a lycanthrope, you know a werewolf. Dingo is a member of the Southern Squadron, Cyclone's main super hero team. He doesn't have a lot of Conscious thought and basically acts on instinct.
2. He actually wasn't successful in sneaking up on DN, Mark detected him just before he growled and despite Dingo having better speed and reactions to mark Mark successfully dodged and dealt with him.
3. mark was more than a little distracted and emotional having just discovered what he believed was his wife cheating on him.

You can't use feats of completely separate characters as if they were your own, especially if they were used against your own characters lmao

1. Mark is aware of the potential to do so. he's had it done to him and fought beside Southern Cross when he has used the same technique in different ways on others.
2. mark has never had cause or a need to use such a technique so how or why would he even if he knows how it can be done. He is the wale in his pond, the most powerful psionic in the Cyclone universe. Who would he have even had the need to use it on?

It's not a low feat for DN it's a high one for SC only because of the more intricate ways he uses his powers. Burt (SC is a latent TKer who without his power cane can move up to 5 MAYBE 10kg. He was implanted with a device by the CSIRO that acts in conjunction with his cane (a power source) that vastly enhances his TK power. When he has the cane in close proximity he can move truck, stop machine gun fire in its' tracks etc. When he has been de-caned in battle (which has happened enough to make it a plot point) he instead turns to things like locking brakes or making gun firing pins misfire. He is simply more creative in the use of his powers because he has to be.

So unless you disagree (and I'd assume you don't because you've argued constantly throughout this debate how much more powerful than DN Legion is) going up against Legion would mean Mark has a very good reason to get creative rather than rely on sheer power. He knows it possible, he knows how it's done and he now has a valid reason to employ it.

Legion can also teleport others freely

Yeah right. Notice how the X-men were INSIDE the Blackbird and then spontaneously the Backbird vanished when Legion "parked it". Storm didn't even get to finish her sentance.

Great debate so far. it's been fun and I love being able to showcase DN (which I honestly don't get to do anywhere near enough for my liking)

Good luck. Will wait for your last post and once done I'll PM leo with a closing statement, unless you'd like to proceed another way?

We're definitely done here as far as the debate goes, but there are only 2.5 things to respond to from that^:

1)

Originally posted by beatboks
I'll cover this point and your other point of Trial of Dark nebula together.

I originally thought the exact same thing about the trial re the planets destruction. however as you can clearly see in each of the retelling
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4139924-cailea+destroyed.jpg

There are bits of planet flying everywhere. The second panel is actually from the issue Trial of DN itself which at the time for some reason I overlooked. The planet was clearly spit us-sunder by his attack. This was a prophesy of the Cailean people. It was also a future shown to cerellus by Marks descendant from the far future (where the first panel of the three comes from).

The mere thought that the Cailean people would not give there everything to destroy the being they believe to be their final bringer of death confirmed by a future one of their own most respected members has seen is laughable at best.

Originally posted by beatboks
On one thing you were correct that I said you weren't.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4137007-micvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/3681260-scan0001.jpg
Each one referred to the total destruction of the planet, which wasn't how I remembered it as I remembered mark still standing in the arena he was attacked in at the end. I went back to the issue and
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4137011-trial+of+dn+6.jpg
Said arena was pretty much in ruins.

So obviously if I attack with darkfire straight up, full out there wont be much of "Manhatan" left for Terry to find resources in as you said.

I honestly miss-remembered it as less than that.

....but when the FEAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED ON PANEL it only reduced the area to rubble in the epicenter

There is even a statue there in the foreground that is relatively undamaged. Those space rocks don't mean anything to me if the actual crater epicenter is only maybe 8' across.

2)

Originally posted by beatboks
Glad to see you've done some research ( frankly anytime I can get anybody reading DN in any way I'm stoked - He's a F#$ great character) but I need to point out the complete context of that.

1. The "guy" sneaking up on DN is a lycanthrope, you know a werewolf. Dingo is a member of the Southern Squadron, Cyclone's main super hero team. He doesn't have a lot of Conscious thought and basically acts on instinct.
2. He actually wasn't successful in sneaking up on DN, Mark detected him just before he growled and despite Dingo having better speed and reactions to mark Mark successfully dodged and dealt with him.
3. mark was more than a little distracted and emotional having just discovered what he believed was his wife cheating on him.

I've already showed you that all the zombies have their minds and personalities subjugated by the caster:

And Legion can lock out anything from their minds, after all he kicked Xavier out of his mind and he's one of the most skilled telepaths in comics AND Dark nebula having the ability to mind scan is dubious per the scans

Originally posted by psycho gundam
[B [/B]

And it was the growl that alerted him, not a mind scan as he first thought it was a Dog till he was turned around.

.5)

Originally posted by beatboks
If I were using it exclusively with mark/DN I'd agree. The thing is I've taken and used the perspective of a genius who plays it loose and wild. Who sees the potential in out there tactics.

1. Mark is aware of the potential to do so. he's had it done to him and fought beside Southern Cross when he has used the same technique in different ways on others.
2. mark has never had cause or a need to use such a technique so how or why would he even if he knows how it can be done. He is the wale in his pond, the most powerful psionic in the Cyclone universe. Who would he have even had the need to use it on?

It's not a low feat for DN it's a high one for SC only because of the more intricate ways he uses his powers. Burt (SC is a latent TKer who without his power cane can move up to 5 MAYBE 10kg. He was implanted with a device by the CSIRO that acts in conjunction with his cane (a power source) that vastly enhances his TK power. When he has the cane in close proximity he can move truck, stop machine gun fire in its' tracks etc. When he has been de-caned in battle (which has happened enough to make it a plot point) he instead turns to things like locking brakes or making gun firing pins misfire. He is simply more creative in the use of his powers because he has to be.

So unless you disagree (and I'd assume you don't because you've argued constantly throughout this debate how much more powerful than DN Legion is) going up against Legion would mean Mark has a very good reason to get creative rather than rely on sheer power. He knows it possible, he knows how it's done and he now has a valid reason to employ it.

NO

Arguments don't work like that

So we PM a closing statement/ summary to Leo???
Or do you have another idea.
Who do you have for judges also? Or do we want Leo to ask/choose?

Again nice debate it's been fun.

Just post the summary here, obviously, then gather judges. No more PMs to people

Hopefully get to closing 2morrow been busy

Summary closing

Psycho says that during his prep he summons an army. To support this he shows a clip that shows one of his characters summon 5 people in just over a minute and another 4 in a minute. So in his 5 minutes of prep he can summon at most 25 people. More like a Squad than an "army".

Given that during that same prep he states that these summoned warriors will also be zombified and mind linked ( another minute), plus Kabuto has to absorb life force from them ( not sure how much there will be) in the non remaining time. That actually reduces it to considerably less that 20, maybe 10 or 15. Frankly this seems pretty insignificant in the course of things. Not to mention the fact that AFTER all this is done Legion makes his Pscyhic bunker. Will he EVEN have time left??? It's possible Psycho could say he made it first, but if that were the case can Kabuto even summon his "army" (snicker)/Squad? I mean if his psychic bunker can withstand planet busting attacks (which MUST be the case) can Kabuto summon through it???

Conversely in my own prep (which is don in the base of Terry Sloane) Terry grabs and puts on his armor from Earth 2 #0 and then spnds the rest of his time watching the futures that base shows as the rest of my team did while mind linked for the whole time. Each team member can be looking at a different area of the 9th dimension and seeing a different alternate future play. I stated this was a total of 13 minutes (5 by Dark Nebula and Ray, and 3 by Terry). Realistically there is no reason it couldn't be the full 15 as terry could easily have been watching while donning his armor, but I wanted to keep it as clean as possible.

I also stated that I basically know at least 3 minutes into the battle before it starts. This is simply to have allowed me to have seen four alternatives. to know how reaction to what I do in reaction to his plan would play out and adjust accordingly. Put simply if a counter I had chosen to enact at the start failed then it was never done because I knew in advance and did something else.

Psycho would have you believe this is reliant on plot and waste of prep. The plot however is determined by us and what this does for me is completely invalidate any plot that has Psycho dominating play at the start. Essentially it means that if any first assault they made was capable of finishing my team it didn't because we were prepared and elsewhere. If any counter we made was likely to fail we didn't make that counter but made another. It allowed us to be prepared for the first counter they had to our counter. end result any initiative gained at the outset of the battle belongs to me.

Psycho has offered no proof that his psychic bunker can withstand a planet busting attack. Instead he expects us to accept a no limit fallacy. Oh it withstands a nuke (which can in NO WAY bust a planet) so it can withstand anything). He would like to make you believe that the planet wasn't busted because if it was he hasn't an adequate defense offered to withstand it. The large chunks of planet in THREE separate recounts of the story are in no way an indication that the planet was destroyed are they? The fact that the area mark was standing on was intact is also in fact consistent with the images of the planets break up as each of those chunks looked like at least 1/10 of the planet. Call me crazy if you will but 1/10 of a planet is hell of a lot larger than a continent so i have no problem believing that an arena was intact.

Then we come down to Psycho's attempts to no-sell DN's TP. His numbering of the Caileans in the scans was quite funny. Let's ignore the fact that man he labelled as 3 in his first scans has three above and to the left of him that look exactly like him and that the one to his right is him with longer hair. In the second scan there is another number one without a moe beside him. The Third scan again filled with number threes. Talk about clutching at straws.

I find this even more ironic when he has openly stated the ONLY attack he is making on DN is Itachi with his sword. he's put so much of his argument into no selling DN's TP resistance when he isn't attacking with TP. Having seen the future before we entered battle and possessing TP that both I and my opponent (nice of him wasn't it) have shown I can send Messages across light years* there is no way he can achieve anything of worth with this attack. A sword is a weapon that is physically wielded and how can he do so against someone who is shown to have TK on the level I have shown. Not to mention wielding a soul based weapons against a character with soul based energy manipulation powers. I can begin to explain how ineffectual that will be.

(* I refer to the image Psycho nicely cropped and highlighted for me at the start of page two where a Cailean warrior states they received Cerellus'/Dark nebula's TP message in the Beta star system before departing)

The we have him trying to no-sell DN's dark fire as lighting and how Legion withstood Storms best lightning. Please ANYONE show me anywhere where storm's lightning has operated on the levels I have shown DN's Dark fir??? When has Storm EVER destroyed and entire race, millions of anything (featless or not), operated on a planetary scale (destruction or not)??? The idea that Storm's lightning is in anyway comparable to the output of DN's Dark fire is completely and utterly laughable. She has NEVER operated on that level for even the briefest of moments.

Psycho's big counter is that his flank attack will work and he offers a "sneak attack" as proof. A sneak attack that failed, real good evidence. He would like you to believe it failed because he heard Dingo grown. Something in comics must have changed without me being made aware of it. Speech and thought balloons etc in a comic always work down the panel in time line (always have) often when we have two characters holding a conversation in a panel, you will see one little balloon that links to another bellow the response of the other characters balloon with their response. The "rooar" that DN would have heard to alert him in your scan was at the bottom of the panel after DN had asked his wife if he got a dog before he turned and saw it. Again your scan actually aided my case rather than sell yours. While emotionally invested AND distracted, DN sensed the presence of an "animal" mind behind him and was able to counter and react to a faster character than himself. This was supposed to be proof that DN would be taken by a sneak attack. Dingo is stealthier than any "Ninja", a lot faster, has greater strength, AND regenerates like your "zombi" (takes a silver bullet to actually harm him)

Psycho would also have us believe that Comet will have so much trouble dealing with his "zombies". He states that he will be getting attacked "en masse". I don't for a minute consider 15 to 20 opponents a "mass" of enemy. Especially for someone who can essentially vaporize the empire state building three times over. Not that he would even be facing all 15 to 20, after all some of them have been sent looking for Terry. They will be on a merry chase wont they, hunting down the guy who's built a teleporter that can and has moved an entire planet and has a smaller version built into his armor.

Here is the real kicker. Between us I'm the only one who has actually presented an attack plan. Psycho set up an elaborate defense of his team with the psychic bunker. he has stated that he has some of his "army" looking for terry and that some are "attacking Comet en masse (rotflmao) and that one of his summoned army ( and he re-iterated ONLY that one) is attacking Dark Nebula. He has put such focus onto defending and no-selling DN that he has actually not finished the job and attacked in a viable way to win. His no-selling of the power bases of my characters has failed to invalidate the attack options I made (and I made several). Whilst he has presented plenty of feats for Legion he has actually not committed him to an action. The only use he has made of him is to say that his mind link with Itachi would break DN, but since I'm not actively TP engaging Itachi or anyone else I wont even be peripherally affected by it.

FYI I have asked two members to judge and they have said yes. Supermutant and CadenceV2. I have judged and hosted matches for both recently so know they are active in BZ. If you cab ask 3 more to make it 5 would be god.

Back

um ok so....a summery thing

-Prep

As stated before, the characters Kabuto had sealed before are just that: sealed. He doesn't need to make them into zombies over again. It's absurd that this is being argued tbh. Just one additional character got added to the zombie roster so that's all the prep time is used for.

-Defense

Shields, regeneration, teleportation and better and more diverse powers that you don't need to imagine how they work or use another character's feats (I will get to an example of that in a sec) to see what Beatboks wants you to see.

Why I win

All my feats are substantiated on-panel or video and my opponent can't say the same, he rather have you suspend your disbelief and extrapolate things from a handful of out of context scans.

Remember when Beatboks said that he had billions (citation needed) of "Charles Xavier level" telepaths(citation needed) and then proceeded to do this whole math thing to make LEGION vastly inferior to some Australian superhero with maybe 3 loosely applicable telepathy/telekinesis feats to his name? Shit had me rollin' cause like...look at this:

The lady with the hoop earrings is consistently right behind ole boy's right shoulder in all these panels. This is not coincidental.

They were conducting his sentencing and you CANNOT say otherwise. AT BEST using the man's own equation and giving him the benefit of the doubt that they are Xavier level (based off of absolutely nothing at all), and simply counting, there are 9 of those characters on panel so Legion being 10x Xavier nullifies all that stuff he was talking about to inflate his character. Then the planet "destruction" was overblown, too. I went over that on this same page so it's all there. You just have to look at the panels to see nothing Beatboks says holds water.

That's just one of the things he said that maybe he just read wrong and built assumptions on in this battlezone.

-ITACHI

Stowing Legion utterly mindraping his whole team, I have a character that can just take out his powerhouse character without any of the talk about countering telepathy with non-telepathy feats blah blah, you just get sealed and that's that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok7tnT3aL8M#t=2739

He won't miss since his eyes have the Sharingan, one of it's properties is that it predicts the movements of whom it's observing and allows the user to move in sync with em like so:

That sword cannot be used against him since it's existence in the world is dependent on itachi willing it to do so, like he can recall it in the blink of an eye.

Anyway...

I have a regenerating horde of zombies that won't be put down

...and that's only IF you can break through Legion's multiple layers of shielding that has withstood things that you've displayed minus these corresponding feats to give them the merit they need to be of substance.

Why he loses

Nothing he said can be properly backed up power-wise as well as logically since Beatboks made many flubs along the way. He has zero counters and he's completely overwhelmed. 2/3 of his team did nothing and are useless

Interesting match. and DN was MVP for this too. Cool cat there.

Things I took away from this.

Pro Beatboks:
DN has the best attack in the whole match.
DN should withstand the TP assaults.
Captain Comet has really good offensive attack.
The prep time helps alot to get a advantage with seeing glimpses of outcomes.

Cons Beatboks:
DN is doing most of the work with his single OP Dark Fire move.
Sloan was not doing much at all.
CC was a glorified opener move, and like Sloan not used much either.

Pro Psycho:
Legion was his MVP. Could very well match DN.
His naruto character is useful with the summons.
What team he has fielded will Regen from certain attacks.
Observation Haki can be useful against opener moves.
Lots of strategies thrown around on why he wins.

Con Psycho:
Legion Bunker was not shown to withstand opening moves.
Summoning a army in the time was not supported. I saw him summoning a handful of beings at best.
Soul Sealing DN is iffy at best from what I seen.

Close Match. I cannot see a reason why the Dark Fire opener would not end the fight pretty much. I also believe both Legion and Dark Nebula are High Herald at the least. I was disappointed not to see much of Captain Comet or Sloan in this fight. I am giving my vote to Beatboks as to who should win. Beatboks as always did a great job debating points, arguing points, but two of his characters were rarely touched on, and it seem DN was the only factor in this match. Psycho team was all used in some way as how they can combat and possibly win this fight. The only question is if the team can survive the opening moves. Which I was not convince they could survive. The regen feats were great, and the Psy Bunker was cool, but I see nothing of either feat to show it can withstand a internal disintegration with magical like Dark Fire. The Regen feats showed no zombie coming back from a total disintegration that I saw. I also again do not see how its possible to summon a army in the time frame allowed when that character never had a feat showing he could.

Close Match. I want to almost give it to Psycho for utilizing his team, but Beatboks arguments of the opener itself just sells me on the fact there is no realistic counter to that salvo of attacks.

I know next to nothing about all these characters, which is a good thing b/c it forces me to be completely objective. 🙂

This was a very close match up with a lot of good back and forth arguments.

My vote goes to Psycho Gundam for the following reasons:

To me this battle was almost 3 characters against 2 characters in PG's favor.
For Beatboks, Terry Sloane wasn't really much of a factor here.
As shown with evidence, Legion would counter/block most of Dark Nebula's attacks. Plus Nagato would repel other attacks.
PG used prep time better even if its only a squad and not an army.
Beatboks had some inconsistencies/errors with his on panel evidence, whereas PG's proof was more consistent.
Therefore, IMO Psycho Gundam made the better argument by using his team's powers effectively, and combining their talents with a get strategy for the win. Beatboks really put all his eggs in one basket with Dark Nebula which isn't a bad way to go, but Dark Nebula would be neutralized with psy bunker, and soul sealing.