Originally posted by JayDaDon
I too think Hawkman wins but to give hawkman the edge in fighting skill would pretty much mean any fighter with thousands of years experience(like thor, ww) are better fighters, Cap is just that good to cover the gap in that regard.
Thor and WW are better foghters, the only reason there skills aren't protested at there peek, is because of CiS/PIS.
Originally posted by beatboksEverything you said about Cap is wrong.
HMMMM lets weigh this upHM - Cap
5 ton strength - 800lbs
flight at high speed (100mph+ at least) - 60mph
healing factor that repaired almost severed limb before fight over and allowed him to keep fighting with an arrow straight through his heart - normal human healing slightly quicker.
Durability that allowed him to take a hiding from BA for seven pages (including having a wall crushed on him and being thrown THROUGH an engine block) - slightly enhanced durability.
1000's of years combat experience - 80 years combat experience.this one is sort of a no brainer.
Its not wrong per say, though Cap's stats are higher, but really on paper it breaks down that way.
Cap is more than the sum of his parts though. He's gone at it with Gods.
While HM isnt a god, he is powerful and more importantly, skilled. He wont just bring a power game. Cap is more likely to get taken down by a powerful competent skilled fighter than a big ol' bruiser.
Originally posted by JayDaDon
What evidence is there for that? I haven't seen a single martial arts feat from WW and especially from thor that > Steve.
You're kidding right?
WW was raised in a civilization were battle and the way of war was like food to these people. Post Crisis Diana even spent a 1000 yrs doing nothing but fighting in an endless war.
N52 Diana was trained by the God Of War himselfl since she was a child. It was showned that Ares not only taught her how to strategize, but also how to fight with nearly every type of weapon.
Thor is like Diana, but with more feats.
Originally posted by riv6672No, it was patently wrong in every way.
Its not wrong per say, though Cap's stats are higher, but really on paper it breaks down that way.
Cap is more than the sum of his parts though. He's gone at it with Gods.
While HM isnt a god, he is powerful and more importantly, skilled. He wont just bring a power game. Cap is more likely to get taken down by a powerful competent skilled fighter than a big ol' bruiser.
Nothing he said about Cap is correct based on actual comic feats.
Originally posted by SquallX
You're kidding right?WW was raised in a civilization were battle and the way of war was like food to these people. Post Crisis Diana even spent a 1000 yrs doing nothing but fighting in an endless war.
N52 Diana was trained by the God Of War himselfl since she was a child. It was showned that Ares not only taught her how to strategize, but also how to fight with nearly every type of weapon.
Thor is like Diana, but with more feats.
Cool, feats are still ALL that matter tho.
Originally posted by Mindset
Everything you said about Cap is wrong.
Aside from that their's the no fatigue thing due to his body processing toxins in his system and he heals faster than a normal man but no where near Wolverine level (which is the HF nth gives HM)
If he had feats greater than that why would they not be used in debates to prove so in stats?. I've only read a dozen cap comics ( around the are when he gave up being cap and wore the black uniform with the American flag) only basing this off the best feats I've seen offered in hundreds of debates. I read every Avengers comic from 1 to 170 and saw nothing their to contradict anything I said.
If there are feats to show otherwise I'd love to see them, but they haven't been Offered in over 200 debates I've read on six forums in the las couple of decades.
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Cool, feats are still ALL that matter tho.
Wonder Woman operated depowered for a year or two and still matched enhanced combatants (like normal Amazons, and Terminator). She also used her MA skill to compensate for the period she was blind.
Also HM combat experience is pertinent for his tactics and leadership NOT H2H. He was leader of the JSA for 5+ decades for a reason. H2H isn't an issue when he doesn't really fight that way, melee weapons yes H2H no.
Originally posted by beatboksGo to his respect thread, it's not like his feats are secret.
In what way??
The strength feat ways thrown up for cap in every debate as his best is him bench pressing 800lbs
The speed feat used in every single debate is when he runs an injured soldier to hospital a km away in a minuteAside from that their's the no fatigue thing due to his body processing toxins in his system and he heals faster than a normal man but no where near Wolverine level (which is the HF nth gives HM)
If he had feats greater than that why would they not be used in debates to prove so in stats?. I've only read a dozen cap comics ( around the are when he gave up being cap and wore the black uniform with the American flag) only basing this off the best feats I've seen offered in hundreds of debates. I read every Avengers comic from 1 to 170 and saw nothing their to contradict anything I said.
If there are feats to show otherwise I'd love to see them, but they haven't been Offered in over 200 debates I've read on six forums in the las couple of decades.
There's a big gap between normal healing and Wolverine level healing. Cap heals a lot faster than slightly faster than normal healing, like you previously said.
Originally posted by riv6672You either agree with me and are right, or you disagree and are wrong, it's not a matter of opinion.
Agree to disagree.Hawkman still wins this match up.
Yea, he probably does.