Originally posted by DigiI'm referring to Spider-man's bullet reflexes not working or his Spidey sense not working for the sake of the plot.
Your conclusion aside, I'd refute this particular point. Lizard has ripped up webbing and really gone at Spidey many times. You can't use individual fights where Pete's trying to talk to Connors and pulling his punches, and say that always happened.
Originally posted by SamZEDSpidey is far faster than Lizard. He has dodged machine gun fire with ease on many occasions, moved entire body out of the path of a bullet when it was only inches away, outran bullets, etc.
Speed too.
Writers downplay Spidey's speed when he fights the Lizard, like when Superman fights strong bricks.
Originally posted by h1a8Don't have to tell me about Pete's speed fears, I'm KMC's self proclaimed expert on them. 😛 That said, have you read their last fight immediately after Lizard's last mutation? I agree Spidey's speed and agility surpasses Lizard's on average but after the last upgrade its open to a debate.
Spidey is far faster than Lizard. He has dodged machine gun fire with ease on many occasions, moved entire body out of the path of a bullet when it was only inches away, outran bullets, etc.Writers downplay Spidey's speed when he fights the Lizard, like when Superman fights strong bricks.
Originally posted by Digi
My gut says the duo, but that's because I read comics. It's how it would go down if it were written. Forum fights are an odd duck, because the same rules don't always apply. And there's the matter of Lizard's many Spidey fights, and other feats. I mean, Bane famously broke Batman. Lizard should be able to go all "Sentry v. Ares" on Bats if he gets a hold of him.I'll just waffle and concede that either side could win, and either side has the means to take out the other. Taking too hard a stance on either side is probably folly. Gun to my head, I'd nudge the duo to 6/10, but w/e.
Pretty much, although I give the duo a higher chance of winning, if you use Cap as the distraction rather than Batman, which ismore tactical, I feel. He IS carrying a massive shield, which will stand up to any punishment Lizard dishes out. And Batman can break out the gadgets whilst he's smashing away on that shield.
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Again, we can't just brush off the pheromones. They're a HUGE advantage.
The pheromones make humans more violent, right?
A; Bad news for Lizard, as Bats/Cap are now bloodlusted
B: Bats has breathing equipment etc (Poison Ivy also uses pheromones, after all) and Cap has his willpower/HF.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The pheromones make humans more violent, right?A; Bad news for Lizard, as Bats/Cap are now bloodlusted
B: Bats has breathing equipment etc (Poison Ivy also uses pheromones, after all) and Cap has his willpower/HF.
That's not exactly what happens. The pheromones bring forth the lizard brain in humans pretty much turning them into dumb animals following only their baser instincts. Emphasis on the DUMB part. Batman does have breathing equipment but it all depends on if you think he's going to have it on before getting hit with the pheromones.
Originally posted by JayDaDon
That's not exactly what happens. The pheromones bring forth the lizard brain in humans pretty much turning them into dumb animals following only their baser instincts. Emphasis on the DUMB part. Batman does have breathing equipment but it all depends on if you think he's going to have it on before getting hit with the pheromones.
👆 Thanks.
Originally posted by JayDaDonAgain, we can't just brush off the pheromones. They're a HUGE advantage.
DS's scans pretty much established Batman's modus operandi against monstrous looking beings is to use gas from the get-go.
Even more so if the powerful-looking monster is tossing around cars and it makes no sense whatsoever to go hand to hand with said powerful-looking monster. Gas is going to be one of the first things coming out.
This automatically negates the pheromones, presuming Liz has them or not.
Batman dons his breathing filters as a matter of course when he uses gas.
That's just going from the scenario the original poster gave us and DS's scans with Batman having NO knowledge whatsoever of the Lizard.
But it's not reasonable to think that.
Because Batman is paired here with Captain America.
In which we also need to consider the following:
1.
-- Lizard is a Spider-Man foe.
-- Spider-Man is an Avenger.
-- The Avengers keep files on opponents.
-- Cap will know Lizard has pheromones.
-- Cap will have sense enough to tell Batman.
2.
-- Lizard is cold-blooded
-- Lizard is vulnerable to drops in temperature.
-- Drops in temperature have canonically been used to defeat Lizard before*
-- Batman carries Liquid Nitrogen capsules
*(See Amazing Spider-Man #45, where Spider-Man tricks him into a refrigerator car on a train
and the cold air all by itself renders Liz unconscious)
http://bronzeagebabies.blogspot.com/2012/07/karens-favorites-marvel-tales-33.html
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Lizard is smart now and the range of his pheromones is insane. Not sure how gas "negates" that.
Please read more carefully.
It's not the gas that does anything to negate Lizard's pheromones.
It's the fact that Batman wears breathings masks and/or filters when he's USING gas that would negate the pheromones.
Found a remarkable thread discussing some of the equipment Batman actually carries with him as part of his standard uniform.
Use word find for "Nitrogen" and consider again what simply being in a Refrigerated Car for a minute did to Lizard as you examine the results you get:
http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com/p/standardadvanced-prep-time.html
Originally posted by DarkSaint85... B: Bats has breathing equipment etc
(Poison Ivy also uses pheromones, after all)
and Cap has his willpower/HF.
Interesting to note: Batman has resisted Poison Ivy on willpower alone, too.
At least he says he has ...
The most ingenious and modern solution to pheremones I've seen sans gasfilters, though, featured in Detective Comics #14 ...
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Please read more carefully.It's not the gas that does anything to negate Lizard's pheromones.
It's the fact that Batman [b]wears breathings masks and/or filters
when he's USING gas that would negate the pheromones. [/B]
That comes after the fact though and I dont believe Lizards pheromones count as general knowledge. If he gets hit with that first he definitely wont be in the frame of mind to put a mask on or much of anything else.