Originally posted by ILS
4. Could you be any more vague with this feat? I mean, I don't know who you're talking about or the context or anything, really, so this doesn't mean much to me either.
Does this imply that you are unfamiliar with Katarn, yet willing to say he loses?
If I had to guess, I think this would be in reference to FOTJ when Luke fought High Lord Taalon on...the planet The Ones inhabit.
Originally posted by Vorpal RuinI'm unfamiliar with the feat because no description of it was given, so I said it didn't mean much to me until I actually had the specifics of it. But I am fairly certain in saying that Katarn isn't as good a duelist as Maul, I've been in several debates involving Kyle with people who've read near enough all of his appearances and him being Maul's equal with a blade is definitely a first for me.
Does this imply that you are unfamiliar with Katarn, yet willing to say he loses?If I had to guess, I think this would be in reference to FOTJ when Luke fought High Lord Taalon on...the planet The Ones inhabit.
Originally posted by ILS
1. Yes, there are definitely ways of figuring out who the better duelist is. Accolades, quality of opponents fought and defeated, and so on. All areas where Maul outstrips Kyle, by the way.2. That's nice and all but people frequently overblow this feat. He defeated seven Dark Jedi... one by one, and none of them have half-decent dueling feats to begin with. It's a good endurance feat, and it's nice that he did it with little training, but defeating opponents of such a low quality isn't putting you on par with one of the most skilled duelists in Sith history, who was more than a match for one of the most skilled Jedi in history along with his padawan, who was approaching him in skill.
3. Simply being battlemaster means little to me when we're this far up the foodchain. And Kyle being vaguely listed as an "unarmed combat expert" most certainly doesn't put him on par with Maul, who had mastered numerous martial arts as a teenager, and had mastered numerous martial arts that Sidious himself described as "exotic", which is a pretty big deal when you consider just how large the galaxy is for something to be considered exotic. That's without even mentioning his Teras Kasi, or his myriad of martial arts feats.
4. Could you be any more vague with this feat? I mean, I don't know who you're talking about or the context or anything, really, so this doesn't mean much to me either.
1. It is impossible to compare quality of opponents between different areas, that's the problem.
2. If they don't have feats, it only means that we don't know how capable they were. You don't know what was their quality. You assume that they were low quality, which is likely to be true but you still don't know.
3. Being battlemaster means that skill wise he was one of the most competent of the order. "Exotic" training is good but it doesn't make Maul better. Windu, Yoda, Dooku, Luke, Kenobi, Anakin and many other characters did not need "exotic" training to be as good as they are. If someone is called "expert" that's all we need to know that they are as skilled as it gets.
4. "Gaalan struck at Luke, high, low, a series of subtle and sophisticated blows that would have bewildered any lesser duelist. He was good; Luke gave him that. He might have been a match for an expert swordsmaster such as Kyp or Kyle Katarn. He would have been too much for a comparatively diffident duelist such as Cilghal, or even Luke as he had been back at Sinkhole Station, at low ebb in physical and mental strength.
But Luke, despite recent exertions, had had time to recover. He parried each of Gaalan's blows, and his ripostes-his blade skittering off Gaalan's and thrusting now at the Sith Lord's face, now at shoulder or knee or torso-came increasingly close to touching flesh.
Luke considers Kyle and Kyp - sword experts. It, also, shows that Luke can't easily defeat an opponent of such caliber. Anyone who can keep up with Luke should be really good. Also, Kyp is has very high potential, Kyle being on parr with him is impressive too.
Originally posted by Arhael
1. It is impossible to compare quality of opponents between different areas, that's the problem.2. If they don't have feats, it only means that we don't know how capable they were. You don't know what was their quality. You assume that they were low quality, which is likely to be true but you still don't know.
3. Being battlemaster means that skill wise he was one of the most competent of the order. "Exotic" training is good but it doesn't make Maul better. Windu, Yoda, Dooku, Luke, Kenobi, Anakin and many other characters did not need "exotic" training to be as good as they are. If someone is called "expert" that's all we need to know that they are as skilled as it gets.
4. "Gaalan struck at Luke, high, low, a series of subtle and sophisticated blows that would have bewildered any lesser duelist. He was good; Luke gave him that. He might have been a match for an expert swordsmaster such as Kyp or Kyle Katarn. He would have been too much for a comparatively diffident duelist such as Cilghal, or even Luke as he had been back at Sinkhole Station, at low ebb in physical and mental strength.
But Luke, despite recent exertions, had had time to recover. He parried each of Gaalan's blows, and his ripostes-his blade skittering off Gaalan's and thrusting now at the Sith Lord's face, now at shoulder or knee or torso-came increasingly close to touching flesh.
Luke considers Kyle and Kyp - sword experts. It, also, shows that Luke can't easily defeat an opponent of such caliber. Anyone who can keep up with Luke should be really good. Also, Kyp is has very high potential, Kyle being on parr with him is impressive too.
2. You could literally say this about any character, but then where does it get you? A character having a lack of feats isn't an argument. It just means they are unproven as duelists and therefore less impressive than someone who is, until they actually gain some feats/accolades of their own.
3. Wait, so you're going to pick on the one word "exotic" and ignore everything else I said regarding Maul's martial arts training, but then laud Kyle being called an "expert" as some kind of massive achievement? A magnaguard could be considered an "expert", but in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter.
4. Luke subjectively stating that they are sword experts is nice and all, but it pales in comparison to actual feats, and Maul's objective accolades are better than this anyway. Luke wasn't finding it easy to defeat that Sith Lord because as per your own quote he was fatigued at the time, and despite that he pretty easily deflected the guys blows and then nearly took him out with his own offence, so really he wasn't much of a challenge for Luke even while he was tired.
Originally posted by ILS
I'm unfamiliar with the feat because no description of it was given, so I said it didn't mean much to me until I actually had the specifics of it. But I am fairly certain in saying that Katarn isn't as good a duelist as Maul, I've been in several debates involving Kyle with people who've read near enough all of his appearances and him being Maul's equal with a blade is definitely a first for me.
It's cool. It just seems like a vast majority of people are eager to jump to conclusion based simply on what other people throw in front of their face, without actually ever having first hand experience with the source. It's kinda lazy, and certainly understandable, but also frustrating imo.
Because someone doesn't hand you info on a silver platter, people think they're correct, and that's dumb. I understand debate, but don't think that winning a debate makes you correct in your assertion, especially when you have a lack of knowledge concerning the topic of debate. It's typically why I don't usually voice an opinion concerning so many characters; I can read what other posters say too, but that's really not a great source, imo, and facts are misrepresented and taken out of context so often that it's maddening. I don't have the patience for debate. People are stupid, all of us, and will believe whatever they want; I know that.
This is certainly not a personal attack on you or anything, just a statement in general.
Originally posted by Vorpal Ruinwell said
It's cool. It just seems like a vast majority of people are eager to jump to conclusion based simply on what other people throw in front of their face, without actually ever having first hand experience with the source. It's kinda lazy, and certainly understandable, but also frustrating imo.Because someone doesn't hand you info on a silver platter, people think they're correct, and that's dumb. I understand debate, but don't think that winning a debate makes you correct in your assertion, especially when you have a lack of knowledge concerning the topic of debate. It's typically why I don't usually voice an opinion concerning so many characters; I can read what other posters say too, but that's really not a great source, imo, and facts are misrepresented and taken out of context so often that it's maddening. I don't have the patience for debate. People are stupid, all of us, and will believe whatever they want; I know that.
This is certainly not a personal attack on you or anything, just a statemeaddnt in general.