Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
and Maul was getting his but kicked by Qui-Gon Jinn who had Maul on the defensive during the second half of their fight and with his sheer strength he knocked Maul off Balance and pressed during their first fight.
Yes but let's not forget, this is SoD Maul, who is vastly more powerful.
Oh dear Christ...
Need I remind you that Vader is faster than Sing who can fight so fast that she appears to be surrounded by a sphere if lightHe also makes webs and whirling votex's of energy in his spare time.Vader>spheres>shields
And maul makes shields
He pressed the attack viciously, blocking and thrusting, the twin radiant blades spinning a web of light about him.- Darth Maul Shadow Hunter
The space around Maul became a whirling vortex of energy as he spun his dual-bladed lightsabre - traditionally used as a training device - and launched a fierce attack on the two Jedi.- Star Wars Fact File 001
and Maul was getting his but kicked by Qui-Gon Jinn who had Maul on the defensive during the second half of their fight and with his sheer strength he knocked Maul off Balance and pressed during their first fight.I'm afraid not.
That's it. Come to me.Qui-Gon swung. Maul parried and swung back fast, clipping Qui-Gon's blade and then Obi-Wan's. The double-bladed lightsaber was a blur. Maul backed onto an inspection platform that was suspended high over the generator's deep shaft, and kicked off, backflipping to one of the many catwalks that spanned different levels in the shaft. Both Jedi leaped after him, and the fight proceeded along the catwalk.
Maul leered again at Qui-Gon. You think you're driving me back. You have no idea that I'm in control. You don't know where I'm taking you.
Maul sensed the laser doors opening behind him. Qui-Gon was unrelenting in his ongoing attack, but Maul parried every blow. Qui-Gon swung at Maul's legs, but the blade swept under his feet as Maul jumped backward. Maul continued moving back, leading Qui-Gon into the hallway. They passed the first four security barriers before the doors activated and shut.
Warding off Qui-Gon's attack with each backward step, Maul maneuvered around the circular mouth of the generator's core, a virtually fathomless pit. Maul sensed Qui-Gon was fighting without hatred, just as he sensed Obi-Wan's helplessness from behind the transparent laser door. He spun his lightsaber to deflect a rapid series of strikes from Qui-Gon's blade, then brought his own lightsaber up fast and slammed the side of its pommel against Qui-Gon's face, stunning the Jedi. And then, with a flick of the wrist, he drove one of his red blades straight through Qui-Gon's chest.
-Episode I Journal: Darth Maul
Then Darth Maul caught Obi-Wan off balance and with a powerful kick knocked the Jedi completely over the railing. Taking advantage of the Sith Lord's assault on Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon forced Darth Maul over the railing as well.There's another source, I think it's Wrath of Darth Maul, which notes that Maul was actually distracted while Jinn struck him because he was worried that Obi-Wan was going to fall and die prematurely, which kind of goes to show how casual Maul was about the whole engagement.- TPM
Originally posted by Trocity
Yes but let's not forget, this is SoD Maul, who is vastly more powerful.
True, but the Vader(iirc, please correct me if i'm wrong) TPM maul fought was not at his prime either, that's my point.
Also, I'm genuinely curious, how much of a difference is there in Maul's skill at the time of TPM to SoD?
Oh woops, you said Maul was knocked off-balance in their first fight. See the thing wrong with that logic is that Maul was injured during his first fight with Jinn, which gave Jinn the advantage. And despite this Maul tired Jinn out in a matter of 30 seconds and had him on the brink of death. And then, the TPM novelisaton states that Maul is better physically than Jinn opposed to being his equal, which was the initial case on Tattooine.
Edit: Also, Maul wasn't even off-balance or staggered wtf, all he said was that him and Jinn's collective blows were sending shudders through his body.
Originally posted by Fated XtasyThere should be no difference between TPM Maul's skill and SoD's.
True, but the Vader(iirc, please correct me if i'm wrong) TPM maul fought was not at his prime either, that's my point.Also, I'm genuinely curious, how much of a difference is there in Maul's skill at the time of TPM to SoD?
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
True, but the Vader(iirc, please correct me if i'm wrong) TPM maul fought was not at his prime either, that's my point.Also, I'm genuinely curious, how much of a difference is there in Maul's skill at the time of TPM to SoD?
Maul's clone fought Vader right before ANH, like, almost immediately. And this is ANH Vader.
And theres probably only a small skill difference, but a significant power difference.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
But i just realized, this is Jedi Dooku.. what are his feats as a Jedi?
No feats since we haven't seen much from him, but many accolades and clear statements and implications of what level he was at as a Jedi.
Jedi Dooku was One of the Most Powerful Jedi in the Order's entire history. He was also according to Yoda the Temple's "strongest" student, and "Most Learned in the Ways of the Force."
He was 1 of only 2 Jedi in the Order known to have outfought Mace Windu in a duel. Whilst we have no idea if Mace Windu (who was using Vapaad at the time) was ever able to out duel him.
So assuming this is Jedi Dooku around TPM era, I'd say he's modestly below the Sith Dooku we know. Go back another 10 years, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was above Sith Dooku (in Lightsaber Prowess at least), given he had still spent decades mastering Makashi to it's apex, but also would have undoubtedly been Physically much stronger and with greater stamina.
Every 10 years off should make a significant difference to physical strength and stamina at Dooku's age.
Jedi Dooku dies. Dooku become considebly powerful after turning to the dark side, it has confirmed by Yoda in the Movie. A weaker Dooku version has really no chance here.
Maul wins. Vader has no defense against Maul's speed, against Dooku, Vader would use his strength advantage but against Maul he has no strength advantage either.
So it comes to speed vs. TK, choose one of them.
Btw Vader hardly become more powerful tbh, not to mention the source of his increasing power is non-canon now. Which was make no sense to me, ANH Vader or 5 year before ANH probably Vader's peak, because he told this to Obi-Wan ;
''The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but a learn, now I am the master.''
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
and Maul was getting his but kicked by Qui-Gon Jinn who had Maul on the defensive during the second half of their fight and with his sheer strength he knocked Maul off Balance and pressed during their first fight.But i just realized, this is Jedi Dooku.. what are his feats as a Jedi?
What makes you think Qui-Gon is inferior combatant now ? Qui-Gon should be on par with Jedi Dooku, or slightly below him.
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Need I remind you that Vader is faster than Sing who can fight so fast that she appears to be surrounded by a sphere if lightVader>spheres>shields
And maul makes shields
Vader is not faster than Sing. Lol. Sing just underestimated him due to Vader's sloppy appearence, and get caught by Vader's reflexes. No one (Maul or Dooku) would underestimate Vader here.
Not to mention Sing has no business in top level confrontation, without surprise factor Sing is just below of Aayla Secura.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Jedi Dooku dies. Dooku become considebly powerful after turning to the dark side, it has confirmed by Yoda in the Movie.
He became more Powerful in the Force after his conversion to the Dark Side, but no where is it stated that improvement was Huge. It was likely a modest improvement to his already great Force Powers.
Originally posted by Marco1907
A weaker Dooku version has really no chance here.
Based on what exactly?
Jedi Dooku was the Temple's strongest Student and Most Learned on the Ways of the Force. He was also known for being amongst the Order's top 3 Saber duelists. The other 2 being Yoda and Mace Windu.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Dooku, Vader would use his strength advantage
As Dooku would use his Mobility advantage.
Originally posted by Marco1907
What makes you think Qui-Gon is inferior combatant now ? Qui-Gon should be on par with Jedi Dooku, or slightly below him.
Qui-Gon on par with Dooku? WTF Man?
Again Jedi Dooku was the "Temple's Strongest Student".
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He became more Powerful in the Force after his conversion to the Dark Side, but no where is it stated that improvement was Huge. It was likely a modest improvement to his already great Force Powers.
Yes it is huge, or in my point of view it is. Make your own assumption ;
''Yoda : Powerful you've become Dooku, the Dark Side I sense in you.''
Becoming ''powerful'' it is big difference in my point of view, or Yoda was exaggerating. But I doubt that, it is like Savage's words on Maul (you've grown so powerful...)
Originally posted by Marco1907
Yes it is huge, or in my point of view it is. Make your own assumption ;
''Yoda : Powerful you've become Dooku, the Dark Side I sense in you.''Becoming ''powerful'' it is big difference in my point of view, or Yoda was exaggerating. But I doubt that, it is like Savage's words on Maul (you've grown so powerful...)
Yoda simply said "Powerful you have become." But it's not like Dooku wasn't already Powerful. He was One of the Most Powerful Jedi in the Order's 25,000 year history.
So Yoda clearly just meant that he's "Even More" Powerful now, which is exactly what the ROTS novel states:
"Once a great Jedi Master, now an even greater Lord of the Sith,
He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history,"
Whilst Savage's line to Maul that "You've grown SO Powerful.."
The "SO" certainly suggests a substantial power increase.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Dude, I know Dooku was one of the best in the Order, but as you know Fisto, Tiin, Kolar, Plo Koon, Qui-Gon, Bulq, Luminara were also, and even Anoon Bondara, so being one of the best really means a little something to me tbh.
Were any of Fisto, Tiin, Kolar, Plo Koon, Qui-Gon, Bulq, Luminara, Anoon Bondara, also called the "Temple's Strongest Student," and "Most learned in the ways of the Force.." by Yoda himself?
And were any of them named as only 1 of 2 people who've been known to out fight Mace Windu?
Edit- Also those guys were named some of the greatest swordsmen the Order ever produced, not the Most Powerful.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Tiin was noted as both one of the best swordsmen and the best force users, so I would think he's also one of the most powerful, but alas it doesn't compare with Dooku anyway. Yoda implies Dooku's the strongest Jedi he's ever witnessed the Order produce, and he's been on top of things for centuries.
👆
Plus however people want to debate how much sparring means, the fact it was stated that only Dooku and Yoda ever defeated Windu in Saber combat, is a clear indication that those were the 3 top Saber duelists of the Order.