Dooku and Mace vs Maul Brothers and Ventress

Originally posted by McP
Nope. S6 Dooku with his Ataru moves mixed with his Makashi mastery would trash S5 Opress and Ventress.

Dooku had been already at his limit brah. Old geezer doesn't have any room to improve himself.

Savage on the other hand, has grown much stronger in S5, learned ''astonishing'' skills from his brother. Stronger and faster, S5 Savage can basically solo Dooku. By Dooku's own admission, Savage was a threat to himself.

YouTube video

Dooku : I can sense him, Grievous. That creature, Savage Opress, is growing stronger and stronger as each day passes.
Grievous : You consider him a threat?
Dooku : He is a threat to all of us, even the Jedi. With the Nightsisters eradicated, there is no one left to control him.

Team 1 solidly

Originally posted by Marco1907
Savage on the other hand, has grown much stronger in S5, learned ''astonishing'' skills from his brother. Stronger and faster, S5 Savage can basically solo Dooku. By Dooku's own admission, Savage was a threat to himself.

Stronger and faster? How? S4 Savage was able to compete Kenobi, possibly on almost equal terms. S5 Savage with Maul's aid was wreck by Kenobi.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Dooku had been already at his limit brah. Old geezer doesn't have any room to improve himself.

Yeah but he showed his full mobility in an open arena against S6 Skywalker and Kenobi.

He clearly didn't have room for that kind of mobility when he fought Opress and Ventress, yet still used the limited space to dance around them both.

People need to stop ignoring environments fights are taking place in, as well as circumstances (Dooku was not expecting a fight at all, and certainly not a fight against Opress+Ventress).

Dooku's Pure Saber performance against Kenobi and Skywalker clearly shows matching/defeating Opress+Ventress in a Sabers only fight is certainly not beyond his capabilities. He just needs to be ready, and may require more maneuvering room.

Originally posted by Marco1907
By Dooku's own admission, Savage was a threat to himself.

Dooku : I can sense him, Grievous. That creature, Savage Opress, is growing stronger and stronger as each day passes.
Grievous : You consider him a threat?
Dooku : He is a threat to all of us, even the Jedi. With the Nightsisters eradicated, there is no one left to control him.

He was worried more about his potential threat. But he never actualized that potential. Dooku also felt "something sinister" coming in that scene when talking about Savage. Of course we know that something sinister was Maul, not Savage.

Fact is the only person Dooku should have been worried about was Skywalker. But he was too arrogant to admit that, which ended up being his downfall.

Originally posted by McP
Stronger and faster? How? S4 Savage was able to compete Kenobi, possibly on almost equal terms. S5 Savage with Maul's aid was wreck by Kenobi.

That was inconsistent and one time thing, in normal circumstances Kenobi and Savage are equal fighters. Kenobi used a tactical mind against Savage, he used the same spot where Adi Gallia hit before. Without death of Adi Gallia, that PIS would never happened, Kenobi is not even using Jar'Kai in first place, he used Gallia's sword, and calling it ''wreck'' is hilarious considering the fact that Obi-Wan was helpless about Adi Gallia's death. So your feeble attempt to lowball Savage is useless on this matter, Savage has enough offensive strength to be a threat to Dooku. You need to compare their styles, using ABC logic is a stupid thing to do here. For example, Obi-Wan always sucks against Dooku, but better against Anakin, same with Savage, Savage is better against Dooku but sucks with Obi-Wan.

So, accept it or not, Savage is canonically more powerful in S4 and S5, that is why he can be a bigger threat to Dooku.

Originally posted by Marco1907
That was inconsistent and one time thing, in normal circumstances Kenobi and Savage are equal fighters.

I'd say it's far more likely that Savage one shot flooring Dooku was the One-Off and Inconsistent Instance.

Originally posted by Marco1907
So, accept it or not, Savage is canonically more powerful in S4 and S5, that is why he can be a bigger threat to Dooku.

How's that canon? Filoni states the vast majority of Savage's power is from that amp the Nightsisters gave him, and that he had hardly any training.

So if he's grown more powerful by S4/S5 it's by a minute amount.

Dooku was talking of Opress's Potential Threat.

It seems like the majority is underestimate Savage because of Florrum battle, which he even defeated Adi Gallia there.

S4 Savage already defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi with his brother's help, disarmed Asajj Ventress and also defeated Plo Koon, defeating Dooku in only sabers is not an impossible thing to accomplish for Savage. Not to mention S5 Savage Opress puts up a better fight than Kit Fisto against Sidious which is even more impressive.

Originally posted by Marco1907
It seems like the majority is underestimate Savage because of Florrum battle, which he even defeated Adi Gallia there.

S4 Savage already defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi with his brother's help, disarmed Asajj Ventress and also defeated Plo Koon, defeating Dooku in only sabers is not an impossible thing to accomplish for Savage. Not to mention S5 Savage Opress puts up a better fight than Kit Fisto against Sidious which is even more impressive.

None of these people you're mentioning are comparable to Count Dooku though. Not to mention Kenobi was taken by surprise by S4 Savage (on top of him being outnumbered). Ventress was also not able to use her usual Jar Kai style against Opress.

You keep saying the Florrum battle was a one-off. But at least that was a long battle with many blocks, parries e.t.c. Whilst you keep judging Dooku on 1 damn strike that put Dooku in a bad position. Despite the fact that an unarmed Dooku was able to evade both Opress and Ventress, so he'd clearly have little-no trouble against Opress alone. He could just dodge/dance around him all day until he hits him.

The Florrum battle wasn't a one-off. His duel against Maul is another example. And I said that Kenobi wrecked Opress, not both brothers. Maul is actually equal duelist to Kenobi, and both are superior to Opress.
Kenobi was loosing to them on Florrum, but Savage did far too much mistakes.

Originally posted by McP
The Florrum battle wasn't a one-off. His duel against Maul is another example. And I said that Kenobi wrecked Opress, not both brothers. Maul is actually equal duelist to Kenobi, and both are superior to Opress.
Kenobi was loosing to them on Florrum, but Savage did far too much mistakes.

Except that Savage actually defeated Adi Gallia and take a small wound on his left knee before that duel. Savage and Obi-Wan are comparable duelists imo but Obi-Wan is a little better, and Maul is a little better than Kenobi as well.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

You keep saying the Florrum battle was a one-off. But at least that was a long battle with many blocks, parries e.t.c. Whilst you keep judging Dooku on 1 damn strike that put Dooku in a bad position.

I will tell you why Florrum is one-time ;

1- Kenobi was in a very desperate situation and amped due to Adi Gallia's death
2- Kenobi was using Jar'Kai, which is very unfamiliar style for him
3- Kenobi was using an aggressive style, which is very unfamiliar again and that surprised the brothers
4- They were fighting in a very confined space, that was a disadvantage for brothers
5- Darth Maul also underestimated Kenobi there because of 2 v 1
6- Kenobi was still losing he used a ''tactical mind'' and hit the same spot which Adi Gallia hit before, he only won via that last hit to Savage's left knee.
7- We've also another example about Maul & Savage vs. Kenobi from last episode of Season 4, where that the brothers easily stomped Kenobi in a normal circumstance.

Can you say the same things about Savage vs. Dooku battle ? That is why it is one-time thing while Dooku vs. Savage is not.

Originally posted by Marco1907
I will tell you why Florrum is one-time ;

1- Kenobi was in a very desperate situation
2- Kenobi was using Jar'Kai, which is very unfamiliar style for him
3- Kenobi was using an aggressive style, which is very unfamiliar again and that surprised the brothers
4- They were fighting in a very confined space, that was a disadvantage for brothers
5- Darth Maul also underestimated Kenobi there because of 2 v 1
6- Kenobi was still losing he used a ''tactical mind'' and hit the same spot which Adi Gallia hit before, he only won via that last hit to Savage's left knee.
7- We've also another example about Maul & Savage vs. Kenobi from last episode of Season 4, where that the brothers easily stomped Kenobi

Before I address all this, let's get straight what you're arguing here.. You arguing that Kenobi battering Opress in Sabers was a One-Off, or that Kenobi besting Maul+Opress was a one off? Because if it's the latter I'll agree with you, but not the former.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Can you say the same things about Savage vs. Dooku battle ? That is why it is one-time thing while Dooku vs. Savage is not.

It was One damn strike you keep going on about. Not an extensive 1 v 1 with Maul followed by a 2 v 1 against Maul+Opress outside, and another 2 v 1 against the Duo in the cave!

Dooku was fighting 2 opponents, and was evading both their blows unarmed. So tell me how Opress even managing to lay a hit on Dooku wasn't a One-Off?

In fact their training session in the same damn episode proved Opress 1 v 1 can't lay a proper blow on Dooku. So explain to me again how that 1 Damn strike was Not a One-Off?

Actually, not only one strike, Savage used some Jar'Kai skills before that heavy stroke, I can't ignore Savage's skills here ;

He is not attacking blindly you see, he is turning his blade with some skill. Otherwise Dooku would disarm him just like he did with untrained Savage.

Originally posted by McP
Nope. S6 Dooku with his Ataru moves mixed with his Makashi mastery would trash S5 Opress and Ventress.

👆 Dooku was at a massive disadvantage in that tiny room.

Yhea.... He cannot keep hiz diztance whil dodging....

Remember than Windu vaapad have a lot of kinetical power, and it a way fazter and more overwealming than oprezz heavy ztyle.. And doooku beat windu...

If you look with a zlow motion he keep hiz guard on until he hurt the wall...

"Obi-Wan picked up Adi Gallia's fallen lightsaber and fended off the Sith brothers. Savage's inexperience proved costly as Obi-Wan was able to sever the Sith apprentice's arm."

^
Source?

http://www.starwars.com/

^ Sounds like the Official Site.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Actually, not only one strike, Savage used some Jar'Kai skills before that heavy stroke,

I'm not sure what your counter argument is here. It was the 1 hit Savage landed the whole 2 on 1 fight. Apart from that neither Ventress nor Opress were able to even touch Dooku for the duration of the 2 v 1 fight (before the rage enhanced choke).

So you're claiming that wasn't a One-Off because Savage showed a bit of combat skill? You want me to show you the level of skill Kenobi showed against Maul and Opress? Or Dooku's skill against Anakin and Obi-Wan on Oba diah? Now those are some real examples skill that can not be denied.

Dooku like mozt of the form II mazterz, iz train to not be dizarmed by a form I mazter.

Me I'm more holonet in my head... If you really know the Holonet mentality you could be really great encylopedian like me (even if I have to admit I'm zome time too lazy to uze my knowledge...)