You really should go re-read it. Coz calling COIE AM herald level is, well....
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thing is, Odin is capable of Galaxy Busting attacks and he (along with 2 other High Skyfathers) were completely unable to do anything to a lone Celestial...Of course that was prior to the progressive writting down the Celestials have undergone throughout the decades...
At current my gut still tells me Celestial, but they arent portrayed as uber as they once were and their weaknesses just keep adding up; SC Anti Monitor has a real chance of victory as a result...
You're talking about a high level Celestial, Arishem, not a normal one. And even then, Thor damaging Exitar (albeit with the belt f strength) didn't happen that far off.
But ok, consider this: The Guardians once contained all the magic in the entire universe, saved a galaxy, and contained a galactic-level reality warper. The CPB which they created is capable of destroying the entire universe and they were the suppliers of Volthoom's power.
Yet, they weren't that effective against SCW AM. And it required their power + galaxy-busting attack + Prime to put him down.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Do you remember when Supergirl was busting him up during COIE? Before she turned her attention away from him (which allowed him to recover and kill her), she had the upper hand against him; he was forced to retreat to repair his armor afterwards...Surely he was no greater than a Herald at that point in time...
This is just plain wrong. You realize that at that point, AM had the power of countless universes inside him? And you call that herald level?
Sure, Supergirl did damage him - the same way she doing against Blackstarr at that same time period despite Blackstarr being a universal power, every super-hero gets to shine once in a while - but you gotta realize something: The writers intended that to be Supergirl's death after all these years that she has been appearing in, so they had to depict Supergirl's death with her, y'know, actually doing something with great impact, and that impact was: Supergirl damaging AM.
Also, this is PC Supergirl, so a PC kryptonite going all out (and not average depiction) is pretty scary. Regular PC Superman/Supergirl have self-imposed inhibitions. I could give examples.
You know, calling him a Herald at the time maybe isnt really fair given how powerful he was supposed to be at the time and what you said is completely correct...
But that said a sub Superman level character was taking it to him...
Yes this is precrisis and their highs were incredibly high, but what people forget is their lows were incredibly low...on average I'd still say she was herald.
IMHO, he was getting it taken to him by a Herald; at the very least he had Herald level durability...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You know, calling him a Herald at the time maybe isnt really fair given how powerful he was supposed to be at the time and what you said is completely correct...But that said a sub Superman level character was taking it to him...
Yes this is precrisis and their highs were incredibly high, but what people forget is their lows were incredibly low...on average I'd still say she was herald.
IMHO, he was getting it taken to him by a Herald; at the very least he had Herald level durability...
A F-lister meta level being tanked an attack from that cursed Celestial killing axe. 😘
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You know, calling him a Herald at the time maybe isnt really fair given how powerful he was supposed to be at the time and what you said is completely correct...But that said a sub Superman level character was taking it to him...
Yes this is precrisis and their highs were incredibly high, but what people forget is their lows were incredibly low...on average I'd still say she was herald.
IMHO, he was getting it taken to him by a Herald; at the very least he had Herald level durability...
Yeah, calling him a herald is definitely wrong. Many cosmic characters get damaged by lower characters. It happens all the time and that instance was no different.
Kara was going all-out, it was even mentioned that she didn't care about what's going to happen to her, she just unleashed herself on AM with all her fury. I agree on the average part. In fact, i myself have argued in the past against PC Superman being a skyfather based on his average showings when all people did were consider his highest only. But that still doesn't change the fact that that was Supergirl at her highest: She was going all out, without any inhibitions.
Superman #322 is an example of what a PC Kryptonian can do going all-out and NOT AVERAGE.
We use Average showings when debating vs battles, but that's an entirely different matter, because SG was actually at her highest when fighting AM.
That's not even mentioning that Supergirl actually destroyed AM's shell only and not AM himself.
Originally posted by operator616
Yeah, calling him a herald is definitely wrong. Many cosmic characters get damaged by lower characters. It happens all the time and that instance was no different.Kara was going all-out, it was even mentioned that she didn't care about what's going to happen to her, she just unleashed herself on AM with all her fury. I agree on the average part. In fact, [B]i myself
have argued in the past against PC Superman being a skyfather based on his average showings when all people did were consider his highest only. But that still doesn't change the fact that that was Supergirl at her highest: She was going all out, without any inhibitions.Superman #322 is an example of what a PC Kryptonian can do going all-out and NOT AVERAGE.
We use Average showings when debating vs battles, but that's an entirely different matter, because SG was actually at her highest when fighting AM.
That's not even mentioning that Supergirl actually destroyed AM's shell only and not AM himself. [/B]
I gotta give you credit; your argument is strong... 👆
I retract my statement about him only being Herald level at the time...
That said, considering that the Anti Monitor had absorbed the power of a near infinite number of universes, dont you think that (even at her best) Kara shouldnt have been able to weaken him? I mean unless Kara at her best is an Eternity+ character, this should have been completely impossible...
Was that instance a case of the Anti Monitor jobbing, DC sending Kara out on a high note, or a combination of both?
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I gotta give you credit; your argument is strong... 👆I retract my statement about him only being Herald level at the time...
That said, considering that the Anti Monitor had absorbed the power of a near infinite number of universes, dont you think that (even at her best) Kara shouldnt have been able to weaken him? I mean unless Kara at her best is an Eternity+ character, this should have been completely impossible...
Was that instance a case of the Anti Monitor jobbing, DC sending Kara out on a high note, or a combination of both?
👆 Operator, FTW.
Originally posted by zopzop
Dude you see the latest Celestial humiliation from Marvel?A F-lister meta level being tanked an attack from that cursed Celestial killing axe. 😘
The axe, though, is specifically enchanted to be able to cleave through Celestials, it's presumably their "kryptonite" in a sense.
Originally posted by zopzopKnite. It's like saying surfer shows no problems against knite but look at Superman's knees bend.
So he should have cleaved Power Man in two. Yet PM blocked the attack without any harm to himself.Power Man had a better showing against that axe than at least a dozen Celestials! 😘
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I gotta give you credit; your argument is strong... 👆I retract my statement about him only being Herald level at the time...
👆
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
That said, considering that the Anti Monitor had absorbed the power of a near infinite number of universes, dont you think that (even at her best) Kara shouldnt have been able to weaken him? I mean unless Kara at her best is an Eternity+ character, this should have been completely impossible...Was that instance a case of the Anti Monitor jobbing, DC sending Kara out on a high note, or a combination of both?
Pretty much of both. Of course, an all-out Kara, even if she is above the herald tier, still shouldn't be anywhere near a being who absorbed nigh-infinite universes...but jobbing on AM's part along with sending Kara out on a high note allowed that to happen, like we agreed. Even if it is completely nonsensical.