Originally posted by Nephthys
Because Bane > Malgus. 馃檪
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh jesus. Maelstrom is just TK and lightning. Malgus just puts himself in a force bubble and starts throwing objects around and pelts opponents with lightning. Raskta can block that lightning and Farfalla can defend against the thrown objects. Easy.
So Malgus is performing lightning and TK, right? Actions that he is known to perform commonly during his confrontations. So how would these efforts even serve as a precursor to development of Force Storm (Wormhole) power, I wonder.
Something is amiss. In your logic I may add.
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Maelstrom power manifests from multi-tasking effort that involves combination of other powers to produce a desired effect or energy; lightning and telekinetic powers are actually among the prerequisites. This energy manifests in the form of a invulnerable sphere covering the Force-user. The intensity of the energy produces flying debris as a consequence. This desired effect or energy (i.e. maelstrom) can be further enhanced or augmented to produce Force Storm (Wormhole) effect. This is what I gather from Maelstrom power and how it serves as a precursor to Force (Wormhole) power.
Force maelstrom is a big leap from the common developments of using powers such as TK and lightning to overcome opponents. It is a manifestation of destructive energy from combination of multiple powers to produce the desired effect. This manifestation of energy can be further intensified into Force Storm (Wormhole) effect.
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Clear now?
Watch the photo carefully. It represents much more then independent utilization of TK and lightning. Malgus is using multiple powers to produce a desired effect or energy (i.e. maelstrom) and this energy is overwhelming the opponents; the maelstrom is tossing the opponents around, injuring or killing them in the process. I counted 3 victims in total. The lightning is manifesting independently from Malgus's own casts around the invulnerable sphere. And their is an opponent behind Malgus getting tossed around from the sphere without Malgus even focusing on him from within the sphere.
Here is a bigger one:-
Here is elaboration from Darth Sidious:
Already, I have perfected the Force maelstrom, which creates the invulnerable sphere to block incoming enemy attacks while bombarding enemies with debris and electrifying them with bolts of lightning.
This technique can be increased into a Force Storm. The churning energy mass of the Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space.
The invulnerable sphere is the manifestation of energy that is known as Force maelstrom. This sphere is a complex manifestation of energy which offers protection beneath its sphere but is violent at the outside.
Originally posted by Nephthys
More like an extremely well-reasoned argument formed from evidence and superior logic. Stop going on about breaking lightsaber defenses. Being able to do that is dependent upon the defenses of the opponent, not just the power of the Sith. Raskta defending against Bane's lightning only proves she can defend against Malgus'.
I know that defenses of the opponent matter this is why I stated "lightsaber-augmented defenses of a powerful opponent." In this statement, emphasis is on both the defensive potential of lightsabers and power of the opponent who performs the defensive actions.
Lsu managed to stop Bane's lightning with BM effect. However, she isn't the only one who pulled this off. Zannah also did so without any augmentation.
In contrast, Malgus overwhelmed the lightsaber-augmented defenses of powerful Force-users such as Leener, Adraas, and the undisclosed mighty Zabrak Jedi. All three are more powerful then Lsu and => Zannah.
As I pointed out earlier, your point is moot.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane's lightning is better than Malgus'. Hows that for valid reasoning?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lawl, that zabrak jedi's feat is utterly incomparable to Bane's in terms of scale and power. Bane far eclipses that showing.
Collapsing two buildings is a feat of enormous scale and scope, and one of the greatest feats of destruction in sheer scale performed by a single Force-user. It produced a mountain of rubble. The parts of the rubble that fell over Malgus, represented just a pocket of the total.
Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breathing more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.
He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He'd surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash into the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged.
Taken from The Third Lesson
Common sense dictates that two buildings will produce lot more rubble then several tons that landed over Malgus. The rubble would have spread across the street.
Nonetheless, a fantastic display of raw power from Malgus as well, that he was able to toss several tons of rubble around like rocks away from him. Kas'im and Vader both failed to protect themselves under similar circumstances.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats a moot point concerning my argument, bro. It doesn't matter if its due to its nature, Kas'im was only struck by a small part of the wave.
It doesn't matters that Kas'im is hit by a small part of the wave. The kinetic intensity of the wave matters, not its span. The kinetic intensity that hit Kas'im was potent enough to pulveraize a defensive individual but Kas'im conjured up a defensive application to safe himself. Jedi and Sith commonly learn to defend themselves to external attacks with applications such as Force Shield.
The wave unleashed by Bane was certainly potent, but not strong enough to overwhelm the defenses of a powerful opponent.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That depends on the force user. 馃槵
Bane produced a wave that was strong enough to collapse a structure but failed to overwhelm the defenses of a powerful opponent (i.e. Kas'im). And I am being generous here by labeling Kas'im as a powerful Sith Lord, he is not a prodigy though. And it is unrealistic for Kas'im to have superior defenses then a prodigiously strong Force-user. He cannot have defenses superior to those of lets say Emperor, Luke, Revan, Yoda, Satele, and Barsen'thor III because he does not have raw power and command of the Force on par with them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
They were caught off guard. Also at most there were only two force users there. And thats still not up to Bane's standards.
And that's not up to Bane's standards? The guy who couldn't even budge Kas'im. Nice.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't recall this.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Terrible reasoning.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Same thing. Bane could incinerate beings to ash with his lightning. Which is better than what Malgus has done. Also Bane disintegrated a dozen, not some.
Bane could incinerate defenseless beings into ash as noted numerous times in the novels. However, his lightning does not achieves this effect when the opponent is a Jedi because the Jedi aren't defenseless.
Malgus have overwhelmed light-saber augmented defenses of powerful Jedi and Sith with his lightning powers. He obviously produces lightning of greater intensity and potency then Bane ever managed to, based on the evidence.
I suggest that you move on from subjectivity and apply critical thinking like you do in topics not featuring Bane. Your favoritism of Bane is reaching unhealthy proportions.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Which merely speaks of the strength of his opponents, not Bane's weakness.
Originally posted by Nephthys
wank wank wank wank wank
If you don't even know that emotions such as anger or hatred fuel potency of lightning, you are not fit to debate the topic of lightning. Simple.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its why Raskta hit him so many times, but it doesn't diminish her effectiveness in dueling him. With the Orbalisks Bane would be able to slaughter most opponents with ease (including Malgus), yet BM Raskta was capable of matching him, putting him on the defensive and almost running rings around him. That's freaking insane.
Comparing Lsu to Malgus is stupid and asinine. Their is no contest between the power and capabilities of the two. And Lsu's performance against Bane is BM-oriented, it is not her original performance. In addition, as I pointed out earlier, Bane was not fighting the Jedi masterfully, he was fighting the Jedi recklessly and this is why the Jedi managed to land blows on him.
Do you think that Lsu would slaughter Bane (DOE) in a strictly lightsaber duel?
Originally posted by Nephthys
He's absolutely no match for Raskta in a lightsaber duel bro. Sorry, his maelstrom won't be of much help either.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus would stop after either tiring or judging the attack ineffective after the Jedi counter it. Shame.
If your intention is to trade jokes, notify me. If you are serious, then apply critical thinking.
That Raskta could basically run circles around Bane on the BM amp would suggest that she was comparably as fast while off of the amp, and Bane as of ROT is not only incredibly powerful but has regularly displayed top tier speed feats all the way back to his POD days, and his later incarnation has by far the greatest display of speed there is.
The argument that she's held back as a duelist by her Force power is quite frankly idiotic. It wouldn't even be that absurd an argument to conclude that she's the single best person we've ever seen handle a lightsaber, given her obvious technical proficiency coupled with that high level of speed.
Originally posted by appletonia
That Raskta could basically run circles around Bane on the BM amp would suggest that she was comparably as fast while off of the amp, and Bane as of ROT is not only incredibly powerful but has regularly displayed top tier speed feats all the way back to his POD days, and his later incarnation has by far the greatest display of speed there is.
It is unclear how fast Lsu will be without BM effect but it significantly enhanced her capabilities.
Originally posted by appletonia
The argument that she's held back as a duelist by her Force power is quite frankly idiotic. It wouldn't even be that absurd an argument to conclude that she's the single best person we've ever seen handle a lightsaber, given her obvious technical proficiency coupled with that high level of speed.
Lsu is the single best person we've ever seen handle a lightsaber? This is really as stretch.
I find Darach more impressive. Kas'im and Windu are excellent as well.
I'm pretty sure the Jedi were taken out by Zannah's sorcery because Sarro was no longer holding her off; he was himself taken out because of the momentary distraction caused by the loss of BM. They were not taken out due to any direct loss in ability caused by the BM. I'm going by memory here, so if somebody could post the passages to confirm this it'd be greatly appreciated.
I'm not saying that the boost wasn't significant, it's described as such, but what I'm arguing is that it's unlikely it would have been so substantial that it would make someone go from being below top tier to literally god tier in speed (which is what possessing a level of speed that is lacking among top tier Force Users, and running circles around Bane, would respectively entail). None of the other Jedi, two of which who were elite, high level Jedi, were described as being anywhere near as fast; it's made painfully obvious that it was Raskta alone that was elevated to close that level of speed/combat ability, and BM in general does not have a precedent for enabling such substantial boosts.
Nothing indicates that her general Force power/mastery was lacking, it was simply her skill at directly defending against Force attacks. I'd argue that Darach was comparable as far as technical ability goes, but I'd imagine Raskta would have the speed advantage. Likewise with Kas'im, though Kas'im is probably the most technically proficient lightsaber practitioner we've ever seen. Mace Windu in all likelihood is not as techncially proficient, and when not operating under the effect that Vaapad has against darksiders, I'd argue he'd be at a significant speed disadvantage.
Originally posted by carthage
Malgus could take this team with ease, any high tier Sith would wreck duelists from Bane's era.
I disagree, I think in dueling skills they're probably respectable. After all, they had a lot of experience in duels.
Force knowledge was more the area they had issue in, thought a flawed area saber skill wasn't one of those flaws.
And there's three people to counterbalance one, no less.
Originally posted by Q99
I disagree, I think in dueling skills they're probably respectable. After all, they had a lot of experience in duels.Force knowledge was more the area they had issue in, thought a flawed area saber skill wasn't one of those flaws.
And there's three people to counterbalance one, no less.
Bane, as of PoD, just choked one of the most senior Brotherhood masters to death and fooled Kaan into thinking that he had subjugated him. Power and command of the Force are most important aspects for a Force-user, other skills only contribute to competence.
Yes, a powerful Sith Lord will trash much of the Brotherhood in a gauntlet. The prodigies may just cut a swath through them out in the open.
And your counterbalance remark is weak. Malgus, in his worst condition, dealt with two Jedi (one was very powerful and the other talented in ambush tactics). And this was much before becoming the Emperor.
Years later, inside the Jedi Temple, Malgus cut a swath through Jedi formations like a knife through the butter. He became more powerful afterwards as a consequence of oneness moment.
As of Emperor, Malgus have incredible powers and is at the pinnacle of his competence and experience. Team is doomed.