Zelda (LoZ) vs. Caster (Fate/Stay Night)
Princess of Hyrule dukes it out with the former Princess of Corinth.
Zelda will be from both the LoZ games, Smash Bros. and Hyrule Warriors.
Can Caster's Noble Phantasm, Rule Breaker, disconnect Zelda from the Triforce should it hit, can Zelda's magic throughout the games she appeared in rival Caster's, will Zelda's times as Sheik prove her capable of avoiding Caster's barrage of spells and pierce her Argos defense?
Who wins?
Originally posted by trexalfa
I think Rule Breaker can disconnect Zelda from the Triforce. It disconnected Sakura from Angra Mainyu (who is in Nasuverse terms a Divine Spirit, a god in ours) without him being able to object.And unless Zelda's speed improved a lot in HW, Caster speedblitzes.
Nope. The jap LttP manual explicitly states that the Triforce cannot be removed unless the wielder dies or relinquishes it freely, or if another Triforce user is involved.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Nope. The jap LttP manual explicitly states that the Triforce cannot be removed unless the wielder dies or relinquishes it freely, or if another Triforce user is involved.
Which is a nice No Limits Fallacy on your part. Nothing in Zelda can do it, that statement doesn't apply to other settings. And Rule Breaker's got the necessary feats for it.
Originally posted by trexalfa
Which is a nice No Limits Fallacy on your part. Nothing in Zelda can do it, that statement doesn't apply to other settings. And Rule Breaker's got the necessary feats for it.
It's not a no-limits fallacy. The limits were clearly stated. And rule breaker isn't within those limits. It fails to work.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
It's not a no-limits fallacy. The limits were clearly stated. And rule breaker isn't within those limits. It fails to work.
Yes, it's a no limits fallacy. Did you expect the LoZ writers to acknowledge things from other settings as being within its limits? That's pretty retarded. Then I guess the Living Tribunal would fail to disconnect Zelda from her Shard, then.
Rule Breaker's got the feats. A degradated version generated by Unlimited Blade Works disconnected Sakura from Angra Mainyu against its will. And besides, even if it didn't work, Zelda needs... a big deal of a power up in HW to beat Caster.
Originally posted by trexalfa
Yes, it's a no limits fallacy. Did you expect the LoZ writers to acknowledge things from other settings as being within its limits? That's pretty retarded. Then I guess the Living Tribunal would fail to disconnect Zelda from her Shard, then.Rule Breaker's got the feats. A degradated version generated by Unlimited Blade Works disconnected Sakura from Angra Mainyu against its will. And besides, even if it didn't work, Zelda needs... a big deal of a power up in HW to beat Caster.
Sorry, it's not a no-limits fallacy if it has limits. You cant just discard the lore of the series just cuz you want your item to work. Rule breaker doesn't fit within the parameters, therefore it fails. Besides, the Triforce is omnipotent and omniscient as stated in the LttP opening cutscene. Has rule breaker ever been stated to be on that level?
Maybe if we were talking about the Infinity Gauntlet that trick might work, but Zelda has that door covered.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Sorry, it's not a no-limits fallacy if it has limits. You cant just discard the lore of the series just cuz you want your item to work. Rule breaker doesn't fit within the parameters, therefore it fails. Besides, the Triforce is omnipotent and omniscient as stated in the LttP opening cutscene. Has rule breaker ever been stated to be on that level?Maybe if we were talking about the Infinity Gauntlet that trick might work, but Zelda has that door covered.
I'm not discarding anything. It's just that that statement is so full of shit it's not even funny. An author can say for example, that "X attack from a character who is capable of destroying a skyscraper cannot be survived by anyone" , I'm not going to seriously argue Galactus can't survive it 😘 And that's the case here. That statement makes reference to the LoZ setting, because writers do not think about Vs debates when writing.
Omnipotence and omniscience? Very big claims, and no feats to quantify it. Ganon sure as hell lost while having in his power the full Triforce. Plus, the Triforce of Wisdom is none of those. Mind you proving it can be scaled to the full Triforce? Because, from what I have seen, it's not possible.
Angra Mainyu was disconnected from Sakura. That Divine Spirit was a planetary reality warper capable of easily life wiping it. So, can a single Triforce shard compare?
Originally posted by trexalfa
Ganon sure as hell lost while having in his power the full Triforce.
I forget the exact specifications, but the Master Sword was stated to be a failsafe for the completed Triforce. You might have to ask Scream about this.
That Divine Spirit was a planetary reality warper capable of easily life wiping it. So, can a single Triforce shard compare?
From what I gather/remember, the Triforce of Power alone should be able to match that. Again, Scream would know better than I.
Originally posted by Sacred 117
I forget the exact specifications, but the Master Sword was stated to be a failsafe for the completed Triforce. You might have to ask Scream about this.From what I gather/remember, the Triforce of Power alone should be able to match that. Again, Scream would know better than I.
I would be able to tell that's pretty logic bending. If the Triforce offers full omnipotence, then a failsafe against it is pretty much impossible, cause it's power wouldn't be able to be countered. The Master Sword has "Evil's Bane" magicks on it, not "anti Triforce power".
Originally posted by trexalfa
I'm not discarding anything. It's just that that statement is so full of shit it's not even funny. An author can say for example, that "X attack from a character who is capable of destroying a skyscraper cannot be survived by anyone" , I'm not going to seriously argue Galactus can't survive it 😘 And that's the case here. That statement makes reference to the LoZ setting, because writers do not think about Vs debates when writing.Omnipotence and omniscience? Very big claims, and no feats to quantify it. Ganon sure as hell lost while having in his power the full Triforce. Plus, the Triforce of Wisdom is none of those. Mind you proving it can be scaled to the full Triforce? Because, from what I have seen, it's not possible.
Angra Mainyu was disconnected from Sakura. That Divine Spirit was a planetary reality warper capable of easily life wiping it. So, can a single Triforce shard compare?
Triforce's power has been proven again and again. Watch the creation story from OoT and you can see the passing essence of Nayru alone created the sun moon and stars as well as the laws of the universe.
The Triforce can create or transform alternate universes or even create another omnipotent omniscient creation. Itself.
The Triforce is simply infinitely beyond a planetary reality warper.
If you're not satisfied with that answer, fine. Zelda carries the Master Sword with her. The Sword's mere presence alone nullifies any permanent god-level curse to it's wielder as seen in TP. It's power protects from any soul manipulation against the user's will. Or Nayru's Love. Or the Ocarina of Time, to seal her soul away.
All I'm saying is that claiming that a relic simply 'wont work' because the creators didnt have your series in mind even thought they made a defense against it is a weak argument. It's no different than me saying that Rule Breaker wont work because it cant affect the LoZ universe. It's nonsense.
Originally posted by Sacred 117
I forget the exact specifications, but the Master Sword was stated to be a failsafe for the completed Triforce. You might have to ask Scream about this.From what I gather/remember, the Triforce of Power alone should be able to match that. Again, Scream would know better than I.
Who do you think gave Scream this info? 🙂
Originally posted by trexalfa
I would be able to tell that's pretty logic bending. If the Triforce offers full omnipotence, then a failsafe against it is pretty much impossible, cause it's power wouldn't be able to be countered. The Master Sword has "Evil's Bane" magicks on it, not "anti Triforce power".
First, sorry for the triple post.
As for the Master Sword countering omnipotence and omniscience, that is what the manual says. I didnt write it.
It is the check, the counter, the House to the Triforce's President, if you will.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Triforce's power has been proven again and again. Watch the creation story from OoT and you can see the passing essence of Nayru alone created the sun moon and stars as well as the laws of the universe.
The Triforce can create or transform alternate universes or even create another omnipotent omniscient creation. Itself.
The Triforce is simply infinitely beyond a planetary reality warper.If you're not satisfied with that answer, fine. Zelda carries the Master Sword with her. The Sword's mere presence alone nullifies any permanent god-level curse to it's wielder as seen in TP. It's power protects from any soul manipulation against the user's will. Or Nayru's Love. Or the Ocarina of Time, to seal her soul away.
All I'm saying is that claiming that a relic simply 'wont work' because the creators didnt have your series in mind even thought they made a defense against it is a weak argument. It's no different than me saying that Rule Breaker wont work because it cant affect the LoZ universe. It's nonsense.
Omnipotence cannot be proven with feats, it's a logical impossibility. You've shown me the full Triforce is star level/ system level at most, and universal if you want to wank really hard. Prove right now whatever the Triforce transformed (I'm guessing the Sacred Realm) is as big as a universe, please. That omnipotent creation, from what game is it? Being created by the Triforce casts doubt on its omnipotence. Plus, Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom. Dunno why are you getting the full Triforce into this.
Ok, so the Master Sword would prevent her from being outright mind raped or soul sucked by Caster the instant the fight begins. What is Nayru's Love going to do? It's shielding is a gameplay mechanic, pretty unquatifiable if you ask me. The Ocarina of Time is not sealing a Servant.
They have not made defenses against stuff from the Nasuverse, just defenses for stuff within LoZ. The difference between my point and what you suggest at the end is that you have no evidence Rule Breaker wouldn't work in LoZ, while I have a point about how you cannot apply any statement to other fiction. Otherwise, we get "building buster one shotting Galactus".
Originally posted by LLLLLink
First, sorry for the triple post.As for the Master Sword countering omnipotence and omniscience, that is what the manual says. I didnt write it.
It is the check, the counter, the House to the Triforce's President, if you will.
Sorry for double posting.
You should quit the bullshit. You just got to Suggsverse level wank with this, and I very much doubt the LoZ writers wrote about something "above omnipotence".
Originally posted by Sacred 117
The fact that you apparently know each other is good news. 🙂We should get along just fine. 😄
Yeah we met like 6 years ago on all is brawl on the Link boards.
Then I came here for a while a battled all things Zelda. Scream is better at math calc than me; he came up with the strength feat for the gold gauntlets (1600 tons minimum).
Hero of Time is my specialty.
http://kmcgames.wikidot.com/lollovelinkclub
Read this. Its from years ago and has me as well as Scream and the other member of this sacred band of brothers, lol.
Originally posted by trexalfa
Sorry for double posting.You should quit the bullshit. You just got to Suggsverse level wank with this, and I very much doubt the LoZ writers wrote about something "above omnipotence".
I'm not sure where you got 'above omnipotence' from. Its a check. Not a superior.
I know it sucks that Zelda is the best at everything. Haters gonna hate; I understand. Why dont you jump ship and join us?
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Yeah we met like 6 years ago on all is brawl on the Link boards.
Then I came here for a while a battled all things Zelda. Scream is better at math calc than me; he came up with the strength feat for the gold gauntlets (1600 tons minimum).
Hero of Time is my specialty.http://kmcgames.wikidot.com/lollovelinkclub
Read this. Its from years ago and has me as well as Scream and the other member of this sacred band of brothers, lol.
I'm not sure where you got 'above omnipotence' from. Its a check. Not a superior.
I know it sucks that Zelda is the best at everything. Haters gonna hate; I understand. Why dont you jump ship and join us?
To effectively defeat someone wielding omnipotence, you have to be above omnipotence. Which is impossible unless you are an insane and rabid wanker (Lionel Suggs). Having something equal only yields you a stalemate. And Link sure as hell beat Ganon in A Link to the Past. This means either that :
A. The Triforce is not omnipotent.
B. You are full of shit and should show me a quote from that manual.
Oh, the lollovelinkclub... I think I'm going to pass. Not my cup of tea.
Originally posted by trexalfa
To effectively defeat someone wielding omnipotence, you have to be above omnipotence. Which is impossible unless you are an insane and rabid wanker (Lionel Suggs). Having something equal only yields you a stalemate. And Link sure as hell beat Ganon in A Link to the Past. This means either that :A. The Triforce is not omnipotent.
B. You are full of shit and should show me a quote from that manual.Oh, the lollovelinkclub... I think I'm going to pass. Not my cup of tea.
You do remember that Ganon had the True Force completely separated in another room during that fight, dont you? The True Force was not a part of that battle whatsoever.
Also, There is no such thing as above omnipotence.
Originally posted by Sacred 117
Haha, I almost wish I was around for that. haermm (Maybe then I would have a membership card. 🙁)
"Despite it's prestigious status as a formal organisation, membership is astoundingly easy to obtain. The simple act of ever supporting Link in any thread immediately condemns one to the status of lolLinklover and gains them membership to this tight-knit community. On some occasions, the simple act of being in a thread containing Link, and offering friendly advice is enough to land you here.
For example; this led to this.
Above we see that friendly advice alone exalts you to the status of full-patch member of the lolloveLinkclub, and even makes it likely that you lick Link's ass."