Originally posted by Vixal1I'll go with crossbones on this. One bad showing against bucky still doesn't outweigh all of his insanely impressive showings against cap, bulleseye, and wolverine.
Eh if he's at the same level he was when Bucky was smacking him around than I'd say Talon stomps pretty hard, faster and strong plus Crossbones has no way of putting him down even with weaponry.
Originally posted by Golgo13His healing factor helps him but it certainly doesn't make him unbeatable. When he fell from that building, he only came back after the ambulance had the time to arrive, decide that he was dead, put him in a body bag, and get halfway down the street. A severely dehydrated, starving, weakened batman also managed to beat him into submission. Dismemberment also works (as proved by bane when he fought a group of talons).
How would he put him down? Healing factor and all.
Also, Crossbones has fought against people with healing factors before. It shouldn't be more than halfway into this fight that Rumlow will figure out that he has to overtax Talon's healing factor in order to win (and let's not pretend that he doesn't have the weapons to do so).
Originally posted by deathslash
His healing factor helps him but it certainly doesn't make him unbeatable. When he fell from that building, he only came back after the ambulance had the time to arrive, decide that he was dead, put him in a body bag, and get halfway down the street. A severely dehydrated, starving, weakened batman also managed to beat him into submission. Dismemberment also works (as proved by bane when he fought a group of talons).Also, Crossbones has fought against people with healing factors before. It shouldn't be more than halfway into this fight that Rumlow will figure out that he has to overtax Talon's healing factor in order to win (and let's not pretend that he doesn't have the weapons to do so).
True, but seeing as Batman can be super human as well, I wouldn't put Crossbones on his level, overall.
Originally posted by deathslash
Even though Crossbones has regularly went toe to toe with Cap?
Has he ever beaten him straight out in HTH combat, though? Batman has been doing some beastly things. Maybe not as often as Cap, but enough to say he can go toe to toe. Though, would probably lose the majority. I'd place Talon ahead of him (Batman) on average. It was just a high feat that he took him out when he was exhausted.
Originally posted by Golgo13Pretty certain that he's beaten cap on two occasions (once with the face beam power and another time that is sort of hazy to me). He's also beaten logan in a 1v1 fight and iirc, nearly killed bulleseye
Has he ever beaten him straight out in HTH combat, though? Batman has been doing some beastly things. Maybe not as often as Cap, but enough to say he can go toe to toe. Though, would probably lose the majority. I'd place Talon ahead of him (Batman) on average. It was just a high feat that he took him out when he was exhausted.
Originally posted by deathslash
Pretty certain that he's beaten cap on two occasions (once with the face beam power and another time that is sort of hazy to me). He's also beaten logan in a 1v1 fight and iirc, nearly killed bulleseye
Are you talking about their fight around Fear Itself? Logan cut him open. It was weird that Logan got cut open too since he's survived worse.
Talon would kill Bullseye too. And there is no face beam in this battle.
Originally posted by Golgo13is talon bullet proof or wearing bullet resistant armor? Also does Talon have any bullet timing feats? Rumlow usually carries around a sniper rifle, ak-47, pistols, grenades, and a few other weapons. I'm wondering what's to stop Rumlow from sniping him as soon as this fight starts.
Are you talking about their fight around Fear Itself? Logan cut him open. It was weird that Logan got cut open too since he's survived worse.Talon would kill Bullseye too. And there is no face beam in this battle.
Originally posted by deathslashHis showings against Cap were back in the day when Cap was peak human before Brubaker made him enhance, low level super human, as far as Bullseye goes I recall one fight where Bullseye stabbed him in the arm and ran away from him. Crossbones doesn't have very many good showings.
I'll go with crossbones on this. One bad showing against bucky still doesn't outweigh all of his insanely impressive showings against cap, bulleseye, and wolverine.
And IIRC he had his powers when he fought Wolverine. Unless there was another fight, I'd need to know context but if he actually did well against Wolverine with no powers then his stock my have risen.
Originally posted by deathslashBefore Brubaker, and Cap beat Crossbones without the serum.
Even though Crossbones has regularly went toe to toe with Cap?
Originally posted by deathslashOne Talon was able to avoid gunfire pretty easily against an entire squad of soldiers. Then again it wasn't William Cobb.
is talon bullet proof or wearing bullet resistant armor? Also does Talon have any bullet timing feats? Rumlow usually carries around a sniper rifle, ak-47, pistols, grenades, and a few other weapons. I'm wondering what's to stop Rumlow from sniping him as soon as this fight starts.
Originally posted by Vixal1Even so, his showings against cap at that time would still solidly put him in the peak human tier and he's gotten even better showings since then. Bulseye stabbed him in the arm because he knew that crossbones was killing him. He also smacked around daredevil on one occasion and more recently, he tussled with agent venom.
His showings against Cap were back in the day when Cap was peak human before Brubaker made him enhance, low level super human, as far as Bullseye goes I recall one fight where Bullseye stabbed him in the arm and ran away from him. Crossbones doesn't have very many good showings.
Originally posted by Vixal1He didn't use his powers when he fought logan. He just shot him a crap ton of times (which is impressive when you remember how fast logan is). A one time loss against a powerless cap is all sort of PIS (especially considering his track record against rogers up until that point in time).
And IIRC he had his powers when he fought Wolverine. Unless there was another fight, I'd need to know context but if he actually did well against Wolverine with no powers then his stock my have risen.Before Brubaker, and Cap beat Crossbones without the serum.
Originally posted by Vixal1Was that Talon fighting against highly trained marksmen or average soldiers?
One Talon was able to avoid gunfire pretty easily against an entire squad of soldiers. Then again it wasn't William Cobb.
Originally posted by deathslash
Even so, his showings against cap at that time would still solidly put him in the peak human tier and he's gotten even better showings since then. Bulseye stabbed him in the arm because he knew that crossbones was killing him. He also smacked around daredevil on one occasion and more recently, he tussled with agent venom.He didn't use his powers when he fought logan. He just shot him a crap ton of times (which is impressive when you remember how fast logan is). A one time loss against a powerless cap is all sort of PIS (especially considering his track record against rogers up until that point in time).
Was that Talon fighting against highly trained marksmen or average soldiers?
Most mid-high end street levelers today would beat the hell out of Cap from the 80's. It's not an impressive feat by today standards.
He smacked around Daredevil after he was already exhausted, Cap beat the hell out of him prior to that fight.
So far we have a loss against a powerless Cap, a loss against Bucky, and no notable victories. It's nice that he shot Wolverine but Black Panther has already stated that Wolverine's style of fighting is based on his damage soak, Wolverine probably wasn't even trying to dodge Crossbones gun fire.
They were a black ops team iirc, they weren't a team of Deadshots but they were still highly trained.
