Zannah and Shaak Ti vs. Katarn and Kas'im

All at their peak.

Neutral setting, no amp/prep time is given.

Can either team prove itself to be superior?

Team 2. Kas'im can handle Zannah and Katarn can handle Ti.

Katarn can kill either of them, Kas'im can at least hold off Zannah.

He'd probably die to Shaak Ti though

so team 2 6/10

Zannah solo's.

Herself? Nah, I doubt she could even do that.

She can take out Kas'im with a quick mental attack. He was susceptible to Kaan's influence, which we know is far less potent than Zannah's thanks to Bane laughing off his and getting bowled over by hers. So that's him out. And then Katarn is a simple fight.

Katarn would stomp her with telekinesis or outduel her. She has no barrier feats to suggest she could stop darkshear, and he's a better duelist than she is

Kas'im blocked Bane's Force attacks, something Zannah can't do. Don't really see how he's inferior to her at all. Especially without tendrils or a nexus to amp her illusions, something you conveniently ignore constantly. And before you try to point out Bane is a Dark Sider as well, that would completely disregard that he resisted it with willpower, not his strength in the Force.

Um, yes she can? She blocked his lightning and he didn't attack her with TK for the express reason that she'd just block it. If she couldn't block his force attacks, you'd think that would have played a role in the fight where he's only got force attacks to fall back on. But stunningly enough he doesn't even attempt TK on her. And Kas'im fought PoD Bane, not 20 years and 3 holocrons better Bane, and he only blocked a portion of Bane's attack.

The "nexus" on Ambria was sealed, Zannah wasn't drawing on it until the last attack. Her illusion wasn't even remotely amped. Bane had prepared himself before the attack on the other hand, having sensed it. Nice try though.

No offense, but suggesting that Kas'im is as powerful as Zannah is idiotic. I'm sure not even Ant would go that far.

Team 2, Kas'im > Zannah being the primary reason

That almost hurts my mind to suggest that Kas'im is actually a better duelist that someone.

He's probably at least better than Shaak Ti, although I don't know if Shaak Ti is even good enough to be considered a "duelist", opposed to something more fitting like glowstick initiate.

Her showing with Marek is superior to Kas'im's versus Trainee Bane. Probably not by much but Kota at least was a superior opponent to trainee Sirak. She should at least be somewhat higher

You make a fair case.

Step up the ladder by one notch, Master Ti. Try not to fall.

Originally posted by ILS
Team 2, Kas'im > Zannah being the primary reason

Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, yes she can? She blocked his lightning

and he didn't attack her with TK for the express reason that she'd just block it. If she couldn't block his force attacks, you'd think that would have played a role in the fight where he's only got force attacks to fall back on.

But stunningly enough he doesn't even attempt TK on her. And Kas'im fought PoD Bane, not 20 years and 3 holocrons better Bane, and he only blocked a portion of Bane's attack.

The "nexus" on Ambria was sealed, Zannah wasn't drawing on it until the last attack. Her illusion wasn't even remotely amped. Bane had prepared himself before the attack on the other hand, having sensed it. Nice try though.

No offense, but suggesting that Kas'im is as powerful as Zannah is idiotic. I'm sure not even Ant would go that far.

Freshest is correct the lake of Ambria had latent darkside energies even aside from the more potent ones that Thon contained At the bottom.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And Kenobi can block Dooku's. Doesn't stop him from getting ragdolled.

Irrelevant. You said she couldn't block his Force attacks while Kas'im could. However Zannah has feats of blocking his lightning whereas Kas'im does not. So you have it backwards in that respect.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You mean like the part where Zannah lunges at a wounded, weakened, and defenseless Bane ends up getting punted?

By a desperate, advanced and unconventional technique that caught her off-guard. Bane himself was also thrown backwards by that attack, so it's incorrect to think that he'd overpowered her or something. Zannah on the other hand actually did punt Bane into a wall with TK while breaking his force defenses, despite him having amped himself previous to her attack.

I don't recall Bane being injured though.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because he actually shown major improvement that's so unbelievable comparable to his nexus feat on Lehon. Which is only amazing when used to support Bane in an argument that doesn't involve Zannah.

I have no clue what you mean here. Sarcasm? Cuz you seem to be agreeing with me. I'm just going to assume you're conceding. Thanks.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except where the book clearly states she's drawing on the Dark Side sealed within the planet. 😬

"The "nexus" on Ambria was sealed, Zannah wasn't drawing on it until the last attack."

Try actually reading what I say before responding next time. And while you're at it, try reading the book as well:

"Again she opened herself up to the dark side. This time, however, she didn't attack Bane directly. Instead, she let it flow through her, drawing it from the soil and stone of Ambria itself. She called to power buried for centuries, summoning it up to the surface in wispy tendrils of dark smoke snaking up from the sand."

The power was buried for centuries, meaning that it wasn't open to her or Bane before that point. The text also explicitly differentiates this attack from her previous ones with the fact that now she's drawing upon outside power. Meaning that beforehand she was not.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No offense, but since I never said that, it really doesn't matter. He doesn't need to be more powerful than Zannah to block her attacks, get in close and end her. But I don't think Zannah's the best thing since sliced bread, so I'm probably an outlier.

You said Kas'im could block Bane's force attacks and Zannah couldn't, so clearly you do think he's more powerful than her or at least comparatively so. Which is a complete folly. Kas'im was significantly less powerful than PoD Bane. Zannah is as powerful or more powerful than DoE Bane. Bane's superior power was the deciding factor between he and Kas'im in their duel, so a larger gap between he and Zannah would be as or more significant. Kas'im is also not as strong enough duelist to beat Zannah's defense. He wasn't even good enough to beat Bane's defense. And Bane is primarily an offensive swordsman.

You haven't responded to my original point that Kas'im falls to her mental attack. I'll repeat: Kas'im couldn't resist Kaan's mental influence. He will fall to Zannah's which is far more powerful. Even if I gave you the nexus which I don't remotely, its inconsequential if one compares the power of the two attacks. Kas'im will fall. Again.

Here is how I see the battle going down.

Kas'im, believing that his training of Bane will give him an edge against Bane's pupil, goes after Zannah while Katarn faces Ti. Kas'im attacks with a fast, aggressive flurry of blows but Zannah, queen of defensive techniques, fends him off. Realising he's getting no-where he breaks off and separates his sabre-staff into two blades, reasoning that this will allow for more precise attacks and assuming she will be unfamiliar with the style.

Unfortunately as he does so Zannah unleashes her trademark illusion spell. While he has good defence against physical Force attacks, psychic attacks are another story. As Kas'im screams and flails around at imaginary horrors she swoops in and kills him.

Meanwhile Ti and Katarn are duelling fiercely. While I do think Kyle is a better duellist, Ti is good enough to hold him off for a while. Zannah nails him with another illusion spell. Kyle is mentally much stronger than Kas'im (I think), but the illusion will at least distract him long enough for Ti to gut him.

Ti then returns to her own time with Zannah saying she'll kill her if they meet again.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Here is how I see the battle going down.

Kas'im, believing that his training of Bane will give him an edge against Bane's pupil, goes after Zannah while Katarn faces Ti. Kas'im attacks with a fast, aggressive flurry of blows but Zannah, queen of defensive techniques, fends him off. Realising he's getting no-where he breaks off and separates his sabre-staff into two blades, reasoning that this will allow for more precise attacks and assuming she will be unfamiliar with the style.

Unfortunately as he does so Zannah unleashes her trademark illusion spell. While he has good defence against physical Force attacks, psychic attacks are another story. As Kas'im screams and flails around at imaginary horrors she swoops in and kills him.

Meanwhile Ti and Katarn are duelling fiercely. While I do think Kyle is a better duellist, Ti is good enough to hold him off for a while. Zannah nails him with another illusion spell. Kyle is mentally much stronger than Kas'im (I think), but the illusion will at least distract him long enough for Ti to gut him.

Ti then returns to her own time with Zannah saying she'll kill her if they meet again.

This is actually probably pretty accurate.