Originally posted by Digi
Blair's following things, but once we're done hashing things out, I'll send him a PM as well with draft rules, just to be safe.
👆
Originally posted by leonidas
more honestly--bw you haven't competed in an event in ages. never entered my mind you'd want in. if the mini format works though, we can easily do others.
sneer
It's not my fault most tournaments haven't actually gone past drafting day. 😬
Blair's right, but there's been a bunch of us doing one-off BZ's for the title belts over the last couple years. Which is in line with the mini-tourney stuff, which seems to be how you have to do it these days.
All of the people I normally PM with to strategize are competing. I'm going to have to grab drinks with Newjak irl soon. Getting a second perspective always helps.
I guess I'm asking if we can use all of one character's strengths and ignore their weaknesses, even if those weaknesses are directly related to the strengths.
eg (again) Ultron + a plastic coke bottle Vs Magneto
Can I use all of Ultron's power, including Adamantium based durability, but claim defence against magnetism because the coke bottle is immune?
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You guys need to stop sleeping when I'm awake or I'm gonna spam the **** out of this thread
😠
lol just move closer and you won't have to worry about it!
i'm in windsor. EST. so yeah, once again, scoob is the square peg. sneer
But Hyperion is immune to Kryptonite and Superman is immune to Argonite... So does he have both weaknesses or neither?
hmm, my initial thought here is that he would have both weaknesses. i think it's possible to amalgamate in ways that you can cancel a weakness. eg--superman+radiation man. radiations man's control would prevent k-nite from harming supes. (that amalgamation may/may not be legal under our natural amp rules though.....)
what about naturally opposing character amalgams? eg--could you take sodom yat (who is highly vulnerable to lead) and meld him with lead, from the metal men? would that cancel the weakness or would the amalgam be dead before you started??
Of course when Minion and Spiral show up I will be astonished with astonishingly astonishing surprise.
😖hifty:
The Ultron example makes me want to say you wouldn't be able to ignore the weakness. In that scenario, if you're enjoying the benefits of the adamantium durability, there isn't much way I could see you ignoring the vulnerability to magnetism.
The Superman/Hyperion example is trickier at face value. I'm not sure I have a clear answer, unless there's a situation like Leo outlined where the others' power actively cancels the weakness.
Originally posted by leonidas
so yeah, once again, scoob is the square peg. sneer
Does that make you guys a bunch of round holes?
lookaround
Originally posted by Digi
The Ultron example makes me want to say you wouldn't be able to ignore the weakness. In that scenario, if you're enjoying the benefits of the adamantium durability, there isn't much way I could see you ignoring the vulnerability to magnetism.The Superman/Hyperion example is trickier at face value. I'm not sure I have a clear answer, unless there's a situation like Leo outlined where the others' power actively cancels the weakness.
So, let's decide something, either:
1. Weaknesses stack
2. Weaknesses are ignored if the second character has a specific defence against it - as per Superman + Radioactive Man
3. Weaknesses are completely ignored if second draft doesn't share the same weakness - Superman + Captain America
4. Weaknesses only apply if you argue the benefits that come with the weakness - as per Ultron + plastic bottle
5. Something else...
Originally posted by Blair Wind
It's 11:10 right now eastern standard time for me. I think Smurph and I have the same time zone, Digi may be middle US or Eastern Standard time as well. Not sure about Leo
Originally posted by leonidas
lol just move closer and you won't have to worry about it!i'm in windsor. EST. so yeah, once again, scoob is the square peg. sneer
I'm in Calgary, so two hours behind you guys.
I don't wanna figure out the difference between me and Scoob. It's a bunch. I plan on winning our match by keeping him up at all hours of the night waiting for my response. KO via fatigue!
Weaknesses: I think options 2 and 4 aren't mutually exclusive. Basically, if you intend on reaping the benefits of a particular character trait (adamantium body, kryptonian physiology), then you should suffer the weaknesses that come with that (magnetism, kryptonite), unless you also have a power to counteract that (energy manipulation, radiation manipulation).
Past that, it should just be the judges call, I think.
This whole event is becoming more of a mental game/exercise in figuring out amalgamation possibilities than it is in actually deciding on one to use in a battlezone.
And I've got the same problem as Digi- the people that I would normally bounce ideas off of are competing or judging this thing.
B-Dub, are you an actual judge for this match? It would help to have a host give me some rule interpretations to determine just how illegal all my ideas are. 😐
i think if you want to use bw as someone to bounce ideas off of that would be fine--ie get an opinion on someone who you may think flirts with the cap, etc. any final decisions on character choices can be made between the 4 of us though. maybe if we need some sort of 'final ruling' on something, bw can be that guy? sort of the pseudo-host/overseer? i've put out a couple pm's for judges. if no one can do it, bw can vote in the event of a tie maybe? if we're bouncing ideas off him though, maybe not the best idea to have him judge. no offense bw.
Originally posted by Existere
This whole event is becoming more of a mental game/exercise in figuring out amalgamation possibilities than it is in actually deciding on one to use in a battlezone.
😮 it wasn't supposed to be a difficult thing.....
on the plus side, once we get it all worked out, anything similar in the future will be easy to pull off. i think we can all agree to perhaps some leniency when it comes to some rules. i'm usually NOT for that type of idea, but this is intended to be for fun and to get in some good debating. if everyone is overly worried about things, we're doing it wrong. really, unless something egregious is being pulled, i'll be fine with whatever you guys come up with.
Originally posted by Existere
It would help to have a host give me some rule interpretations to determine just how illegal all my ideas are. 😐
We know you. They are probably all 95% illegal.
😉
Seriously, just draft within the limits, don't try to squeeze characters in from higher caps, we all have the same limits.
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I do have a question about the "no amping" rule though:
1. Would my previous tourney combo of Sasquatch+Hank Pym be admissible? Sasquatch's strength would multiply like Pym, just starting at a higher level.
Or
2. The strength/power can't rise above the strongest single drafts strength/power?
I've been looking at drafts based on the second idea, don't wanna walk into a match and realise I was playing with a different rulebook
well, i think if we bear in mind the idea that the amalgam has to remain in the mid-herald range that should help sort out your question. nowadays pym/sasquatch would def be illegal given pym's feats. i think if you went with someone like sasquatch/giganta that might be ok though. i get that sas is benefiting from giganta's size powers, but you're really still just adding the combo. not sure how the others would see it though.
Originally posted by Scoobless
1. Weaknesses stack
2. Weaknesses are ignored if the second character has a specific defense against it - as per Superman + Radioactive Man
3. Weaknesses are completely ignored if second draft doesn't share the same weakness - Superman + Captain America
I think 2 is the only one that works. Otherwise, no one will have any weaknesses unless you draft characters with the same weakness (ie: two Kryptonians).
Originally posted by Existere
B-Dub, are you an actual judge for this match? It would help to have a host give me some rule interpretations to determine just how illegal all my ideas are. 😐
Originally posted by leonidas
i think if you want to use bw as someone to bounce ideas off of that would be fine--ie get an opinion on someone who you may think flirts with the cap, etc. any final decisions on character choices can be made between the 4 of us though. maybe if we need some sort of 'final ruling' on something, bw can be that guy? sort of the pseudo-host/overseer? i've put out a couple pm's for judges. if no one can do it, bw can vote in the event of a tie maybe? if we're bouncing ideas off him though, maybe not the best idea to have him judge. no offense bw.
I'm willing to act as psuedo host and tie breaker judge. I don't really want to be a first line judge though.
As far as rulings/illegal picks, you four have been organizing most of the rules and such yourselves. I can help with general ideas if anyone wants them, but this seems to be Leo's show.
Originally posted by leonidas
😮 it wasn't supposed to be a difficult thing.....
Make it quick and dirty guys. None of the four of you are known for really stepping over the line in tournaments (or relying on loopholes), so I don't think you really have anything to worry about.
Originally posted by leonidasI don't want to bounce ideas off him, I was just hoping there was a judge that could directly address my draft question. I can talk to Charlotte if that would be more appropriate, or I can wait to get your opinions post-draft.
i think if you want to use bw as someone to bounce ideas off of that would be fine--ie get an opinion on someone who you may think flirts with the cap, etc. any final decisions on character choices can be made between the 4 of us though. maybe if we need some sort of 'final ruling' on something, bw can be that guy? sort of the pseudo-host/overseer? i've put out a couple pm's for judges. if no one can do it, bw can vote in the event of a tie maybe? if we're bouncing ideas off him though, maybe not the best idea to have him judge. no offense bw.
Originally posted by ScooblessYup, not my problem. I'm confident all my character ideas are firmly within the limits.
We know you. They are probably all 95% illegal.😉
Seriously, just draft within the limits, don't try to squeeze characters in from higher caps, we all have the same limits.
Typing on my phone now, I'll try and address my question to you guys when I grab my laptop.
Originally posted by Existere
And I've got the same problem as Digi- the people that I would normally bounce ideas off of are competing or judging this thing.
Originally posted by Existere
I don't want to bounce ideas off him
ermm
Originally posted by leonidas
well, i think if we bear in mind the idea that the amalgam has to remain in the mid-herald range that should help sort out your question. nowadays pym/sasquatch would def be illegal given pym's feats. i think if you went with someone like sasquatch/giganta that might be ok though. i get that sas is benefiting from giganta's size powers, but you're really still just adding the combo. not sure how the others would see it though.
There are going to benefits to adding two people together no matter what, right? Just don't cross over the line where one amps the other to such a degree that you're effectively creating the best version of that one character (ie: Superman + Dr. Light or something similar).
Yeah, we're overthinking at this point. #2 works for weaknesses, as others have mentioned. Otherwise, it should be up to us to prove things in matches. Obviously the powers will mesh in certain ways, but we all know an amp when we see one.
Let's make some picks and get this shindig going. I should have mine in by Tuesday.
And yeah, I'm not likely going over any limits. There's actually an outside chance I draft two high metas. 😮