Best combat speed fts!!!

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, well, if you don't believe me that just means you haven't been exposed to the insanity that is the character of Val Armorr.

Pics or it didn't happen. And while you're at it, t!ts or GTFO. 'Cuz.....uh.....um.....BOOBIES!!!

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, well, if you don't believe me that just means you haven't been exposed to the insanity that is the character of Val Armorr.

Originally posted by Mindset
I am Val Armorr.

Then I salute your space karate prowess. That one time you used a karate kick to stop an earthquake was awesome.

Yeah he's telling the truth happened in Justice League of America #10 (Vol.2)

Originally posted by Delta1938
Seems like you're changing things now that contradictory examples have been given.

One: Examples of his reaction time/time perceptions have already been posted, including the one you keep arguing is invalid.

Two: There's examples both before and after that contradict his "slower than light" with Wally. Both travel and time perception/reaction time examples.

again, i dare you to show me the scans thaat have superman saying " i have ftl reflexes"
because i can definitely show the man gauging his own abilities, and posing a specific limitation saying" im slower than light"

this is not a statement some other uninformed character is making. this is superman himself noting his own limitations , supported by feats AND the statements of others

But here's something you missed, that Abhi already posted.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Reflexes-Reaction%20Time-Time%20Perception/Nano_Second_Fraction

"--for a fraction of a nanosecond"

[/b]

lets ignore everything and treat that as an actual feat, at that point in post crisis supes' career?

if he can move about casually in a TIME DILATION of a fraction of a nanosecond, why then does he struggle at all in moving through a measly nanosecond for that braniac feat?

you are simultenously claiming superman can casually overcome a TIME DILATION of a fraction of a nanosecond, but struggle to move in a non time dilated nanosecond

brilliant.

I can't think of any lip service(or feats/showings) saying that Captain Marvel was equal to Superman in speed. Funny enough though, that very comic you cited, Superman kept-up with Freddy despite his speed being amped.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Miscellaneous/AmpedCM3

Freddy ....really? you are comparing Freddy " 1/3rd of the power of shazam" freeman to cap?
and supes literally notes his "teeth are rattling out of his head", with the effort of catching freddy
Hardly conclusive proof there being a noticeable speed difference between them

I don't take "Turned up to a MILLION!!" literally, but pretty clear that Freddy is much faster than normal, even with power sharing in consideration.

i mean, sure thats a speed comparision right there

Also, one of the few speed comparisons I've seen had Superman as faster.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Miscellaneous/Miscellaneous/SUPERMAN-SHAZAM_FIRST%20THUNDER%202-PG06.jpg

"Not as quick" doesn't tell how much faster, and seems to be travel speed, but still saying Superman is faster.

Also, Eclipso possessed Supes seemed to think he was far faster than Cap.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20speed/Miscellaneous/Miscellaneous/SUPERMAN_V2_216-PG10.jpg

Shit talking/hyperbole? Perhaps. Seems worth mentioning though. And speaking of Eclipso possession.....

in any case, moving to a city in an instant, is hardly an impossible feat for a dude who spells out words over the planet between sentences

[/b]

If you're arguing it amps Superman, evidence doesn't support it, since Eclipso amps those by combining his energy with them. Something that doesn't work with Superman's solar energy.

In fact, Eclipso Supes did poorly against Guy Gardner after getting solar matter dumped on him.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Captain%20Nazi%20exposure/Eclipso_Non-Amp

But I am digressing. Anyways, moving on.

[/b]

real conclusive, this

Kinda contradicting yourself here.

[/b]

Check the whole race. Near the end, Jay speed steals from Superman, slowing him down and amping himself. Superman still closes the gap. Still loses a close race, but closing the gap with Jay amped would've meant he had to be faster than Jay.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20speed/Running/DC-FIRST

[/b]

but more on that later
just to be clear, you are simultenously arguing that superman can barely race even with a non amped jay, but absolutely "catch up" with an amped jay and also simultenously make a non amped jay "look like a statue" , all in the same post

so supes is simultenously
1. wildly faster than jay to the point of making him look like a statue
2. as fast as jay, racing evenly with him
3. reasonably faster than jay to the point of "catching up" with an amped jay

nice. full marks for a consistent argument

So since Superman has statements and feats putting him as faster than the Marvels, would you concede on the he's equal to the Marvels in speed claim?

[/b]

It was already posted, but here. Jay is under the Superman after image under Red Arrow(or whatever he was going by at the time). But since Superman is flying, I guess you'll call it a travel feat? Granted we don't know what speed he was going.

[/b]

Speed stealing from Superman, but not in the immediate example above.

So basically you're arguing it's hyperbole because Superman was a little off? [/B]

given his history of being unable to react at ftl speeds, and his timing being off, id say it was a little more than a nanosecond

oh and as for the prof zoom feat, that falls under the same category as " i outreacted wally west in sacrifice" for supes, ie , contradicted by their own independent feats and the fact that barry left him in the dust/ even mind controlled and LETTING for supes to catch him, casually outraced him for a while with a smile as supes busted a gut just to keep up

Originally posted by abhilegend
You didn't made anything clear kid.

I read it. Its total bullshit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And you are ignoring that it was specefically due to time travel that Superman fainted?

Yeah, you are DEFINITELY from CBR.

Originally posted by carver9
The title explains it all. What is the best quantifiable combat speed ft you can think of. No PC fts can be used here. Fts has to be done via combat. No flying here. This is all reflexes/movement speed.

One I can think of is...

Gladiator combating at light speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where does it say they are fighting at lightspeed?

lmao 😂

carver always tries to pull a flt hat trick around here, but it rarely works when DS is on the clock.

Originally posted by carver9
[Hulk vs. time:

Superman is faster than Teleportation and far faster than any DB char ever made. But that's clear as day if you read comics. Anyway.

Ok, I'll enjoy breaking you into pieces.

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
[B]Condescension is always a great way to begin a debate

So...absolutely nothing to do with a monthly then. well that at least answers the question

oh and i did "look it up". its listed as an Elseworlds

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090107152629/marvel_dc/images/2/24/The_Kingdom_%28Collected%29_Vol_1_1.jpg

Where is the elseworld logo kid?

Correct . thats the one from the actual canon comics

Of course not. he absolutely did meet completely different zods in those stories and a completely different, unrelated version after an explicit reboot

on the other hand both the kingdom, and thy kingdom come follow on explicitly from the events of kingdom come, and only one of them is part of an actual storyline running through canon comics.

So ....an alternate future that never happened, at best

so why do you feel this should be counted as a feat for mainstream supes, given absolutely zero references to it , during the meeting between supes and KC Supes in thy kingdom come?

No but lets reverse this. do you think superman was throwing about " my timing was a bit off" for "shits and giggles?" no? what about " im not FTL!"

man the guy must have been in a desperate need of a chuckle with the lives of two people at stake

or do only those feats you dont like, get dismissed as " shits and giggles"?

so no. what im actually saying is what superman is actually saying. he gave himself ABOUT a nanosecond, and his timing was a little off. which , coupled with his history makes it a great feat for him, just not an EXACT nanosecond feat, or a FTL reaction feat

Heh. " a nanosecond passes." " Im a nanosecond ahead of you". "about a nanosecond"
the definition of iron clad , unquestionable feats, arent they?

Ill take that as a compliment, given the expertise youve been showing in the concept of " wrong" in this thread

Seriously? i told you there was nothing like what you said there
here's their first meeting in full

Zod: Hello Kal el....superman. or should i call you clark kent?
we have obtained glimpses into your life on this primitive planet for decades and yet ive never understood your motives for self degradation
your father would be disgraced to discover you masquerading as one of these sub kryptonians. youve embraced their culture and abandoned your own

Superman:...general zod?

zod: you know of me, kal el?

S: ive studied kryptons history. you are wearing prison uniforms.you and your friend are criminals who were exiled to the phantom zone
Z: we are not criminals!"

where from, exactly in this exchange, are you getting " Ive never met a zod before?"

or, how does this in any way contradict OWAW/ for tomorrow, and those completely different versions?

ill tell you why. both thy kingdom come and the kingdom follow on explicitly from the events of the elseworlds kingdom come. only of them happens in canon comics

the zod from last son has no relation to OWAW or For Tomorrow, or even the bryne version. it contradicts / clashes with none of those versions. we dont HAVE to choose last son or OWAW as exactly one of two canon stories

but the KC sequels vary explicitly from each other. only one of these versions is canonically possible. hence im going with the jsa canon version

Which works just fine given the whole "torture/ fake kill supes for 500 years" story

and the earth 22 superman is explicitly the same guy from the end of kingdom come

No

Given that a fair bit of that series was spent mucking about in alt universes at a time alt universes were not supposed to exist in dc continuity.....mmmm

oh, and that superman was loosely based on the kc version at best,

Thats actually a very vague reference but anyway, issue no?

Well the events of both kingdom come and the kingdom would totally make dc one million non canon
as it is, it was a tempora anomaly, that never came to pass, much like waverider observing the various alt universe versions of supes through the 90s and hence non canon

Now everything is non canon. Good going kid, soon you'll turn entire post crisis history non canon.

Well i tried.
one last time.
only one of the two versions can possibly be canon without contradicting the other, as opposed to those other examples

👆

Or did supermAn react late?

scans that say he released it EARLIER?

what exactly are you basing this on, other than you interpreting " my timing was a bit off" to mean the boy reacted earlier

why or why would i not be wrong in saying " superman reacted late", give what the expression my " timing was off" could mean?

Scans of the silver surfer proclaiming his own speed to be slower than light?
come on, i dare you

No

I Actually post more often on comicvine, but whatever helps you deal with loss

....
ok ill explain it in terms of the one character you do know about
superman in seagles run, searches for cir el at " near lightspeed". that by itself does not mean superman is LIMITED to the speed of light. thats him making a statement about his speed, not placing a limit

however. when superman explicitly places himself below lightspeed in JLA, when Dr light explicitly notes that superman is below lightspeed in vol 2, that , coupled with a history of similar limitations , makes him slower than light.

if you manage to show me scans of say silver surfer or post 2000 wally explicitly saying they cannot cross the speed of light, THEN id agree that they are not FTL, if they themselves gauge themselves as slower than light beings

Surfer feared he would get trapped inside a black hole forever.

He also needs Nova's help to go FTL.

Two examples. There, Surfer is proven to be slower than light.

so unless we actually see a speedster screaming " im not FTL", there is no reason to discredit their feats or provide them FTL status if they do have the feats

superman noting hes specifically under lightspeed casts his feats in an unfavourable light, and given most of them are not clear cut feats certainly doesnt help, nor him fainting through time travel, getting blitzed by people who dont fee the need to say " im slower than light", only running even with similar sublight speedsters etc only adds to this case

theres a long list of things as already noted, but superman earmarking himself as sublight is certainly one of the main factors

Provided they dont have contradictory feats, sure

unfortunately superman has a lot of contradictory stuff to go against his couple of clear cut feats

What an enlightened opinion [/B]

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
[B]which takes ftl speeds to achieve. as noted by supes himself.

" ....Fast enough to exceed the speed of light! fast enough to cross the time barrier under his own power!

it doesnt take a giant intellect to guess thats just what hes PREPARING to do now. got to get to him before he reaches FULL SPEED.."

its clear from the dialogue that FTL speed was what facilitated the time travel in the first place, given DCs history of that being a pre requisite for the same and supermans own statements to the effect

pquote]nothing like ftl speed and time travel being two separate things, like you are suggesting. crossing the speed of light was what made him faint period.[/quote] Sure thing bro. Nothing like superman himself noting that it was time travel which made him so weak can get in your way.

When.

Yea...ftl speed is a pre requisite for time travel, not vice versa

hence the various flying bricks have great travel speed feats, without moving through time

on the other hand, no one has moved through time on speed alone without crossing the lightspeed barrier to the point of entire arcs being devoted to the same, where its specifically mentioned as the all important criterion ( zero hour, the js arc where jay moved baack to the future from ancient egypt, etc)

No but apparently i did 😄

Er no..?
Time stops. the editor tells us its the same effect from superman 61
superman 61, where superman was frozen in time, till waverider released him
and here waverider starts off by not having him frozen in time

wheres the inconsistency, beyond you wildly clutching at straws that dont exist in the first place?

Your fanfiction doesn't counts as a fact kiddo.

nowhere in the comic does it say that supes is using his speed to overcome the effect. its heavily implied that waverider is allowing him to move, with the reference to the previous issue where er....waverider allowed him to move

Scans of waverider "doesnt wanting him to move?"
come on, i dare you. surely, this cant be (yet) another thing you made up, can it?

heck just answer this. later in the same issue, when supes is trapped in a time stasis, and explicitly notes " cant move..." , who was the dude who allowed him to move? hint: the name starts with "wave" and ends with "rider'

So you are now calling your own handpicked example, a low showing now.heh

He certaintly wrote supergirl moving at 99% the speed of light in space, just as one example

well that certainly ignores the time mcduffie specified his reactions as being slower than light or seagle had him, with a tremendous effort only approach the speed of light

Thats because he IS ftl. his maximum speed is way beyond the speed of light

its just that he cannot react at these speeds. sure, he can fly through space at a million times lightspeed, where i dunno the chances of colliding with even our solar systems asteroid field are .....one in a billion , but no way does that translate to actual ftl reflexes

think of it as a pilot flying an aircraft, at i dunno the speed of sound or something. that in no way implies that the pilot could i dunno...write a letter at the speed of sound.

but thousands of miles of empty space? sure he could fly at that speed, and heck even avoid something in his path, if he gets a radar warning or whatever

something a guy with microscopic/telescopic vision/ super hearing really has no problems with

So lets check the words again from superman 123
" faster than light...

a BLAST of fierce surging energy is FIRED"
we see a blast leaving his hands
we see a blast, and not a body moving towards the guy
we see the blast drop him in the river, with the buildings in the background
we see superman still among the buildings

This isn't Superman flying towards "the guy"?

http://i.imgur.com/xqgioxZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/K39vSr8.jpg

I don't even know whether to laugh or pity you.

are seriously saying now that supes FIRED himself as a blast?

No. but firing energy blasts is comparable enough

I see that was too difficult for you to understand
so in simple words
you claimed you were going to show instances of surfer noting his own speed to be slower than light
what you actually posted, is nothing like your claim

or to put it even more clearly
surfer claiming he cant escape a black hole ,in no way translates to him being slower than light

No its dubious because it contradicts his own estimation of his own abilities, and his showings throughout his career

just like , to pick your favourite character, surfer beating two galactus level beings by manipulating the energies of the big bang itself, is dubious considering his history of showings and his own admissions about the limitations of his power in comparison to galactus

nope.

When you are ignoring the dozens of examples provided and producing feats from non canon comics, or flat out posting scans that contradict the very things you say, id say im more than justified on my stand on the matter

Heh ...flying through space from the earth to the moon translates to reaction speed now.Not to mention a statement contradicted by actual feats

he accepted it

Sure she does
and while we are talking about "waay out there feats" , that contradict consistent feats over decades, diana deflecting the shards that crossed the universe in moments is pretty ridculously above supes' feats

i dont really care for such feats, but hey everything goes apparently

So lets see
you talk about batmans comments on their speeds
i say i dont really care for them
you say they are totally legit and proceed to babble on how superman totally rocked amazo and how this was a more powerful version or whatever
i said no, amazo was reaally inconsistent in the arc, and supes was one of the first to go down

you respond with " you are f***ing wrong!"

i mean...seriously?

The issue that ended with barry noting he LET him catch him?

the issue where Barry searched the continent five times looking for superman to catch him and help him?
great example

Supes sure caught him off panel at a time wally could move only in a fixed path and couldnt change this path, something diana used to beat him an issue laater

havent read titans 10, but even assuming this was an actually feasible feat for a change, considering stuff that wildly contradicts it , conisistently, since the 2000s from their respective feats to wally outracing HV to supes struggling with all his might to catch up with a depowered wally, im not sure what argument you are putting forward here other than " PIS counts cuz Superbro!"

Heh. non canon rubbish. dubious twisting of statements rather than actual feats. scans that contradict your own claims. references with context omitted.

sure youre doing a great job so far

I actually post on the vine more often but hey, the conspiracy theories must sure help with the pain of dealing with utter defeat [/B]

Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]Ok, I'll enjoy breaking you into pieces.

😆

Originally posted by The Gray Ghost
😆

Want some more of that?

Originally posted by abhilegend
😬

Want some more of that?

no...i dont actually want any more of that. i was debating whether or not to actually reply to some of the crazy mental gymnastics going on here, and this is pretty much going to be my last exchange on the matter with you

most of these desperate monosyllabic non- responses boil down to inane, puerile insuts and " so? I dont care"s that expose you for the 14 year old superman nuthugger that you are, and dont bear responding to. this is a public forum, and your twisting of your own scans and statements are obvious to all..

but...
surfer struggling to escape from a black hole has nothing whatsoever on panel to indicate a limitation or flat out denial of his own speed, beyond inferences made by you
surfer needing novas help to cross the time barrier contradicts his earlier feats, and comes more than decade after he crossed time multiple times on his own, in the very series that started with him going FTL to rescue Nova. theres no indication whatsoever , that he hadnt already crossed the speed of light before reaching time travel speeds, and most important of all, this isnt a flat out denial of ftl reactions

ex- jay needing to steal speed to cross the time barrier does not by itself, discount his reflexes, its him saying specifically " im slower than light", that contradicts the other stuff

FTL speed is a requirement for time travel. Time travel is not a requirement for FTL speeds

all feats count as long as they are not flat out denials. which pretty much brings us to the issue of canonicity of the kingdom.

its discounted solely for specifically contradicting the ending of another canon story when both branch off from the same story

superman meeting KC supes in the kingdom and batman/ superman and then again, thy kingdom come does not simultaneously hold unlike the Zod stuff because each gives a variant version of the ending of the same story as opposed to something as trivial as " i used to know a totally different guy named Zod" NOT being stated and " hey youre the kryptonian general zod "being stated

one million referenced a possible alternate future , the kingdom version, that never came to pass, to the point of directly being contradicted by later stories from something as casual as Damien and the Ibn guy to the one million future itself as opposed to an alternate universe version that ran through canon comics

the story is not non canon because "they fail to reference it", just like OWAW is not non canon because supes " fails to reference it". it is non canon because it contradicts post crisis continiuity massively to the point of having a totally different ending to the version of the same story that appeared in mainstream post crisis continuity

" From the look of confusion on his face( which BTW does not actually exist in the comics", is not the same as an actual denial or something that massively contradicts post crisis continuity, and seriously " look of confusion on his face " is just a classic example of your ever increasing desperation in this thread

and yes its an alternate universe version, which is what makes it canon, as opposed to the vastly contradicted alternate future version

batman/superman series sure introduced supergirl before proceeding to divert along some....interesting pathways

but sure its canon, given it doesnt wildly contradict post crisis history

just like surfers feats count. just like OWAW counts. as long as its not a flat out denial., its fine

other than this... mmm
Jay specifically needed to steal speed to cross the lightspeed barrier and enter the speed force

id like the ray scan and i asked for the issue no for the other scan and not the one million scan

lightray blitzing the crap out of him in the action comics legends tie in ( 585 iirc) certainly supports the claim, which was BTW confirmed by Metron in superman 128

also, barry couldnt stop moving. so he did the next best thing, which is find superman, run around him and LET him catch him, as noted by Barry in the very issue

the rest is just you shooting yourself in the foot, contradicting your own statements, coming up with petty monosyllabic non-responses and insults instead of an actual argument, distorting or in cases, falt out ignoring your own scans and feats, as is pretty much obvious to all

everyone can see the scans posted and arguments made, and can judge for themselves

have a nice one mate, im done here

2 people in this thread are about to see some of my combat speed feats.

Originally posted by Mindset
2 people in this thread are about to see some of my combat speed feats.