Well, at the time Fox didn't really want another Alien movie either. They wanted something by the Alien 1 director himself, but also something a little more original. So Ridley explored the origins of the Space Jockey, something he always was interested in.
But I don't give a shit about another Alien movie being put on hold. None of the sequels were as good as the original anyway. Prometheus is much better than any of the Alien sequels.
But yes, I agree, Ridley changing the name of Prometheus now is very peculiar. I still think it's a terrible idea.
Originally posted by Patient_LeechPhucking LOL @ putting Prometheus above perfection like Aliens. Alien started the series, but Aliens MADE it the big name classic franchise it is.
Aliens is entertaining (as well as annoying). But there is nothing original there. So yeah, as far as originality goes, Prometheus is light years better.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1000617-aliens/
Aliens is the greatest entry in the entire series (not my opinion, I will always love the first the most). Prometheus isn't half the movie it is.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Comparing Prometheus & the Alien franchise is ridiculous.
Why is it ridiculous? They exist in the same fictional universe. They beg to be compared and contrasted.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
But I do understand [some] sci fi fans want action whilst others want more of a cerebral experience.
Exactly. There is nothing cerebral about James Cameron's movies. And Bill Paxton and the rest of those Marines... Jesus, it's baffling to me that they don't annoy the piss out of anyone else. Everyone just thinks James Cameron is a genius. I don't get it. He's a solid director for action, but extremely vapid otherwise.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Why is it ridiculous? They exist in the same fictional universe. They beg to be compared and contrasted.Exactly. There is nothing cerebral about James Cameron's movies. And Bill Paxton and the rest of those Marines... Jesus, it's baffling to me that they don't annoy the piss out of anyone else. Everyone just thinks James Cameron is a genius. I don't get it. He's a solid director for action, but extremely vapid otherwise.
Maybe my term of "ridiculous" is as extreme as you labelling Cameron as vapid.
Fans of the Alien franchise want action & adventure & less godlike mythology to the evolution of life. Posters here have already voiced their disappointment in the Alien movie being canned & not so much as in showing faith to what Ridley wants to do with Prometheus.
Yes, Paxton & those marines were meant to be annoying & unliked.
As actors they played their roles well. Paxton always gets type casted for annoying roles...and he does a fine job at it.
Notice how all the marines died too ( except for love interest Hicks)?
They were all meant to be annoying as well as Alien fodder.
You don't like Aliens ok!
But don't be so naive or disillusioned that you can't see that Ridley Scott never delivered what he promised or hinted at with Prometheus & now he seems to be doing the same all over again with a sequel...that's now being called a prequel.
And please don't take this as personal attack because I do respect your admiration for Ridley & Prometheus...but I don't want to have to read & disconstruct every article & interview to get the full understanding of the film afterwards.
If the guy can't tell a convincing story with all the talent & money invested, then he seriously is doing something wrong.
I have no problem with cerebral sci-fi... When it's done well. Hell, I grew up watching TNG and DS9. Prometheus, as much as I enjoyed it, has its issues.
Aliens has nothing original? Really? despite it being the originator of a bunch of tropes that are done to death in cinema today? Despite it being largely responsible for an entire genre of video games?
I honestly wanted Prometheus 2 AND Alien 5. I'm disappointed we aren't getting Alien 5, but I'm still hopeful Prometheus 2 will be good, especially now that they have a writer that won't **** around with everything.
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Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Comparing Prometheus & the Alien franchise is ridiculous.But I do understand so sci fi fans want action whilst others want more of a cerebral experience.
Ok, considering that..,(Aliens, wrote the "book" on sci-fi suspense).
Slowly building and developing a full cast only to quickly erradicate and then define a select few characters into a a no win scenario and decide whom was worthy to survive through competnet writing. You have to remember, when, Aliens came out there was no, sci-fi thriller genre. So to classifiy, Aliens as an, Action movie is an incompatence, on a the viewers, part. Yes, there is a significant amount of action in the, Aliens movie, but to say that the action is what defines it as a masterpiece is ludicorous. The "cerebral" aspect of the movie is what makes it SO MEMORABLE. It's the "implied terror" that mkes the movie so astonishing. It's masterfully made sequel that exapanded upon the original, without sullying anything that it set out to achieve. WHAT else is a sequel supposed to do? I'f i'd rather watch Terminator 2 instead of Terminator. Would you call me less intellctual? If you did, i'd call you fu*king idiot that doesn't know anything about cinema. Much like comparing Evil dead 2 to Evil Dead.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Phucking LOL @ putting Prometheus above perfection like Aliens. Alien started the series, but Aliens MADE it the big name classic franchise it is.
Back on the subject of the Marines in Aliens: wouldn't it have been more scary if the Marines got wiped out by the xenos, but were actually well disciplined and really badass, perhaps some of the 'best in their class' or something? When a group of annoying fu#k-ups get killed it's not terribly impressive. But the main thing that annoys me most about Aliens, is the fact that James Cameron took just about every major beat used in Alien 1, same ideas: corporate greed not caring about the lives of the crew and only wanting to learn from and study the creatures, the android getting cut open, the flame thrower and siren for self destruction at the end, etc. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's many more. It's just a stereotypical sequel: return to same planet, exact same fu#king thing with more guns/action. Fu#k, that's why I actually rate Alien 3 higher, because it at least tried to be a little more original. Even Resurrection had some commentary in their about the hubris of man once we finally got our hands on the xenos.
I don't hate Aliens. I still enjoy it for what it is (hell, I love a good 80s action flick, they're great). I'm just making the point that James Cameron is overrated in some respects. Great action director (shit, Avatar has amazingly well directed action), but not much going on on a cerebral level. I think I even remember him admitting in the some the special features that he was just a fanboy getting to make a sequel to Alien. And that's exactly what it is like.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Fans of the Alien franchise want action & adventure & less godlike mythology to the evolution of life.
I'm a fan of the Alien franchise and I love the godlike mythology. The problem was that the script for Prometheus started as a straight Alien prequel. But later in the production I think Ridley hinted around and tried to steer people away from thinking of it as an Alien movie. It seems strange to me that they hired Spaihts to write a direct prequel when neither the studio nor Ridley wanted to do another Alien movie. Maybe that's just where they wanted to start, make that the skeleton of the script or something... maybe the studio just wanted to see (read) what it would be like. I dunno. But I think the label of Prometheus in it's early stages as "Untitled Alien Prequel" probably screwed with fan expectations. But you know, Ridley Scott has always been more cerebral. People shouldn't have been expecting a James Cameron action-fest. The beginnings of the Alien franchise (i.e. Ridley's original film) were cerebral and moody.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
And please don't take this as personal attack because I do respect your admiration for Ridley & Prometheus...but I don't want to have to read & disconstruct every article & interview to get the full understanding of the film afterwards.
If the guy can't tell a convincing story with all the talent & money invested, then he seriously is doing something wrong.
I mean, I didn't pick up on everything my first time seeing it, but a good cerebral movie shouldn't be understood fully the first time. It's really not that complicated of a puzzle, they left little hints in the dialogue. It also helps to see it with subtitles and whatnot. But again I'll mention Avatar: amazing action sequences, but practically nothing to think about. Not cerebral at all. In fact, it's basically propaganda. Military = bad, Navi = innocent victims. It happens to be propaganda that I agree with and very timely, but it is still propaganda. That simplicity on an emotional level and cool effects/action = biggest box office receipt of all time. The masses like big and dumb and it's quite possibly the biggest and dumbest movie to date.
I'm not going to argue w/you into liking something you didn't.
That would be a pointless debate.
But taking ideas from a 1st movie & utilising them in a sequel isn't really a rip-off. It's creating continuity.
Cameron expanded on corporate greed that only came into play 3/4 into the 1st movie but became the underlying sub plot in the sequel. We watched the sequel knowing fully well not to trust Weyland especially with Paul Reiser playing the go-between. He was sleazy as Paxton was annoying. We sympathised with Ripley loosing her crew in the 1st movie to her concerns & motivation of the colony's plight in the second movie.
We found out in the 1st that aliens feared/hated fire more than bullets.
Should Ripley have totally ignored that in the sequel or fully utilise it?
And the marines & their "bug hunt" attitude. They were the classic rag tag crew that the army didn't want but couldn't get rid off. They were the ones missing out on the action & getting the dirty jobs after. The classic Kelly's Heroes w/Eastwood come to mind. The marine's incompetence clearly showed us that these xenos were something humanity wasn't prepared for at all.