Is betraying Plagueis Sidious' downfall?

Plagueis makes a good point about how some of the ancient Sith Lords achieved immortality(kinda) but focused on worldly powers too much and ended up dying at some point. Plagueis on the other hand was on to something and had he lived longer, he and his apprentice would achieve immortality unlike any sith before them.

If Plagueis lived till the time of ROTJ, imagine the level of midi-chlorian manipulation he would reach. So, do you think Sidious denied himself immortality by betraying his master prematurely in this sense?

Why would it matter when the end result is the same? Sidious downfall was that he put Anakin back together and let Luke live when he stopped having any intention of dying.

Not sure, but I'll bet ol' Hego is glad he didn't end up crossing roads with Agen Kolar.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why would it matter when the end result is the same? Sidious downfall was that he put Anakin back together and let Luke live when he stopped having any intention of dying.

Cause everything you counted would play out differently if he let Plagueis live for longer?

Originally posted by Sinious
Cause everything you counted would play out differently if he let Plagueis live for longer?

Those are obvious factors that caused Sidious' fall at the end, yes.

The whole point of this thread is to point out that there is another mistake(maybe) of Sidious that is prior to the things you've listed.

And this would not only give him immortality but also make him much more capable in the force. If the duo lived lets say for a century experimenting the force, they'd probably end up having reality warping powers.

Who's too say Plagueis wouldn't still die to Anakin or Luke as Sidious then? He's still an imbalance in the Force that has to be corrected. More powerful? Maybe. But the two factors that actually caused Sidious' demise are still there, and he's fully capable of ending them himself. Or was anyway.

You're missing the point brobeans.

"So, do you think Sidious denied himself immortality by betraying his master prematurely in this sense?"
Seems pretty clear to me. Sidious was still effectively immortal. So sure, I really don't get how this would matter.

Sidious' downfall was not reducing Luke to a pile of ashen cinders the moment he said 'I am a Jedi, like my father before me'.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Sidious' downfall was not reducing Luke to a pile of ashen cinders the moment he said 'I am a Jedi, like my father before me'.

Originally posted by Sinious
Plagueis makes a good point about how some of the ancient Sith Lords achieved immortality(kinda) but focused on worldly powers too much and ended up dying at some point. Plagueis on the other hand was on to something and had he lived longer, he and his apprentice would achieve immortality unlike any sith before them.

If Plagueis lived till the time of ROTJ, imagine the level of midi-chlorian manipulation he would reach. So, do you think Sidious denied himself immortality by betraying his master prematurely in this sense?

He could reach immortality as an emperor, but he refuse this gift to himself ---> he respected Bane and the rule of two.

Very possibly. It was pride and hubris that led him to kill his master: the same sins he rightly understood were the Jedi's downfall. So naturally they were his downfall, too.

But if he hadn't killed Plagueis, he would have been a different person, and events would have turned out very different. He would not have found himself on the death star with Vader and Luke and so he would not have made that particular mistake in this hypothetical alternate reality.

But if we accept the prophesy, then the return of balance to the force was inevitable, so he could either be part of that balance or be destroyed (to paraphrase Luke out of context). If he were a person who didn't kill his master, then maybe he could have developed the wisdom to become part of the balance. Who knows?

Originally posted by Ace Hambone
Very possibly. It was pride and hubris that led him to kill his master: the same sins he rightly understood were the Jedi's downfall. So naturally they were his downfall, too.

But if he hadn't killed Plagueis, he would have been a different person, and events would have turned out very different. He would not have found himself on the death star with Vader and Luke and so he would not have made that particular mistake in this hypothetical alternate reality.

But if we accept the prophesy, then the return of balance to the force was inevitable, so he could either be part of that balance or be destroyed (to paraphrase Luke out of context). If he were a person who didn't kill his master, then maybe he could have developed the wisdom to become part of the balance. Who knows?

Yeah, good point.

I do wonder what they could have achieved in the force as a duo.

Sounds like a good fanfiction. Get writing! 😂

Or here's one I found that is close to your scenario:
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8388456/1/The-Cradle-Will-Fall

Its is too challenging for me 😮

That looks like a good one. 👆

Sidious' downfall was Lando.

Seriously. If you look at it from a pure movie perspective, Luke and the drama going on in Palpatine's chambers had nothing to do with the battle going on outside. Even if Luke had fallen to the dark side, or even if Palpatine had simply killed him, Han and friends on Endor would still have disabled the shield generator, and Lando and Wedge still would have penetrated the Death Star's defenses and blown up its reactor.

Lando is the Hero of Star Wars.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Sidious' downfall was Lando.

Seriously. If you look at it from a pure movie perspective, Luke and the drama going on in Palpatine's chambers had nothing to do with the battle going on outside. Even if Luke had fallen to the dark side, or even if Palpatine had simply killed him, Han and friends on Endor would still have disabled the shield generator, and Lando and Wedge still would have penetrated the Death Star's defenses and blown up its reactor.

Lando is the Hero of Star Wars.

I doubt the Death Star II would've been blown up if Sidious hadn't been thrown down that shaft by Vader.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Sidious' downfall was Lando.

Seriously. If you look at it from a pure movie perspective, Luke and the drama going on in Palpatine's chambers had nothing to do with the battle going on outside. Even if Luke had fallen to the dark side, or even if Palpatine had simply killed him, Han and friends on Endor would still have disabled the shield generator, and Lando and Wedge still would have penetrated the Death Star's defenses and blown up its reactor.

Lando is the Hero of Star Wars.

Actually Chewie was, he stole an AT-ST which noted to be the turning point in the ground battle in favor for the Rebels.

Sidious downfall was turning to the darkside. Throughout all of galactic history, no darkside user has met a happy end. Sooner or later, you're going to get destroyed by greed, over-ambition or arrogance. Sidious and Plagueis both died as a result of the last one. Decades of scheming, but little time to actually enjoy the fruits of your work. I would like to see a story where a darkside useer realizes this, gets genre savy and becomes a true neutral. Bane had the potential to realize and would have had he considered just how easy the rule of two system could fall apart.