Wyyrlok and Ulic vs. Zannah and HoT

Ulic not only resisted the mental attacks of the Ketos he resisted King Ommin's Force attacks as a whole and without a connection to the Force was so mentally strong that he became one with the Force regardless.

His speed feats include generating almost half a dozen after-images and without any Force augmentation fighting at the same speed as dark Sylvar, someone who could blitz Force-enhanced Massassi abominations. Last but not least he has blitzed Warb Null and Ommin.

His dueling skill is on par with Exar Kun's despite a shrapnel injury and is routinely held in high regard as a Jedi Guardian by characters across the eras. Even Anakin Skywalker recognised him and his skill.

Force feats are sparse by comparison but he is certainly very powerful. As a matter of fact he has been used as a benchmark for Darth Sidious,
stating that even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious of Palpatine's power.

He is probably the strongest character here.

Wyyrlok is better than Zannah.

No, he isn't.

Originally posted by Q99
I'll note mindstuff is not only her specialty, but his teammate's as well.

Not to the same degree. And I'd like to see him try mental attacks on Tython.

Originally posted by Q99
He is? He did pretty darn well against Krayt, and he won a sorcery duel with Andeddu.

In comparison to the other combatants? Yeah, he's the weakest.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Ulic not only resisted the mental attacks of the Ketos he resisted King Ommin's Force attacks as a whole and without a connection to the Force was so mentally strong that he became one with the Force regardless.

Like I said, the Keto's aren't in the same league as Kaan, let alone Zannah, when it comes to mental attacks. For what it's worth, the HoT also has immense telepathic ability, able to dominate Tol Braga. Braga is the only Jedi or Sith to have ever completely overcome Vitiate's mental domination over time, so his will is pretty dang good. Ommin is also not as good as Zannah, especially in terms of mental attacks.

I'm pretty sure that last thing has nothing to do with willpower, lol.

Originally posted by AncientPower
His speed feats include generating almost half a dozen after-images and without any Force augmentation fighting at the same speed as dark Sylvar, someone who could blitz Force-enhanced Massassi abominations. Last but not least he has blitzed Warb Null and Ommin.

His dueling skill is on par with Exar Kun's despite a shrapnel injury and is routinely held in high regard as a Jedi Guardian by characters across the eras. Even Anakin Skywalker recognised him and his skill.

Force feats are sparse by comparison but he is certainly very powerful. As a matter of fact he has been used as a benchmark for Darth Sidious,
stating that even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious of Palpatine's power.

He is probably the strongest character here.

Nah, nothing here that's greater than the HoT or Zannah. In speed, skill and power both compare or exceed him.

I love the time you put into your rebuttals, the opinions are fantastic.

I'm a bit burnt out on arguing Bane and Zannah tbh. You should know all her shit by now anyway.

Originally posted by Trocity
Wyyrlok is better than Zannah.

Team 2 wins.

Nephs arguments are pretty LOLworthy. People bring up feats/proof Zannah's illusions need time to gather power and all Neph says is LAWLnope Bane is better.

Originally posted by carthage
Nephs arguments are pretty LOLworthy. People bring up feats/proof Zannah's illusions need time to gather power and all Neph says is LAWLnope Bane is better.

At a glance?

You're sort of misrepresenting him here :hmm

He's not denying that as far as I can tell, more he's trying to illustrate that you're overstating the issue of it possessing some charge time

Mostly through demonstrating how short of an interval the charge time may be

Hell if I care that much though, mostly just shooting the shit

It's barely even a charge time, it's more like ch- time.

Likewise, Wyyrlok can do his illusions pretty quick too. And has experience fighting mental attacks with mental attacks...

Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]
In comparison to the other combatants? Yeah, he's the weakest.

He's strong enough to give a long fight to be sure, regardless of how one precisely ranks them. Krayt's certainly a more dangerous foe than Zannah.

Wyyrlok is probably a bit of a dead weight, but not by much. and i think the Hero of Tython would beat Ulic Qel Droma at least 6/10

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
Wyyrlok is probably a bit of a dead weight, but not by much.

I think you may have an odd definition of dead weight. He was a rough fight for *Reborn* Krayt (who's stronger than Ulic), and chumped a legendary immortal sith sorcerer at sorcery.

He's going to at least hold his own against most major sith lords.

Dead weight implies a character that has to be carried, while it's pretty obvious that if anyone in this fight fought the other team solo they'd die hard.

They're fighting against a sith sorcerer and Wyyrlok is known-really good at sorcery fights!

Ulic Qel-Droma has stalemated Exar Kun whilst injured, the same Exar Kun recognised as the best duelist of the era. Please tell me again what opponents Hero of Tython has fought with saber skills on the tier of Exar Kun.

Originally posted by Q99
He's strong enough to give a long fight to be sure, regardless of how one precisely ranks them. Krayt's certainly a more dangerous foe than Zannah.

Never said he'd go down easy.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Ulic Qel-Droma has stalemated Exar Kun whilst injured, the same Exar Kun recognised as the best duelist of the era. Please tell me again what opponents Hero of Tython has fought with saber skills on the tier of Exar Kun.

Scourge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Never said he'd go down easy.

Some are acting like he'd go down quickly or easily, which... isn't happening.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge.

Isn't on Exar Kun's tier, your point?

I don't see why Kun is significantly greater than Scourge.

What proof have you got that Scourge approaches one of the greatest master duelists in the lore? Allow me to guess, being roughly equal to Meetra Surik? Killing generic Sith with unknown elements of support? or is it getting handled by HoT? I hardly think so.

Kun remains arguably the greatest Niman master of all time, quite possibly invented the saberstaff and was routinely equating Ulic and Vodo in lightsaber combat, two genuine master duelists themselves. Not to mention that his personal lightsaber form is stated to be unstoppable when combined with his precognition.

Originally posted by AncientPower
What proof have you got that Scourge approaches one of the greatest master duelists in the lore? Allow me to guess, being roughly equal to Meetra Surik? Killing generic Sith with unknown elements of support? or is it getting handled by HoT? I hardly think so.

Kun remains arguably the greatest Niman master of all time, quite possibly invented the saberstaff and was routinely equating Ulic and Vodo in lightsaber combat, two genuine master duelists themselves. Not to mention that his personal lightsaber form is stated to be unstoppable when combined with his precognition.

Sure, he was about equal to Surik.... 300 ****ing years before his prime. Scourge mastered at least 3 lightsaber forms in a mere 20ish years. So it's not difficult to imagine that an extra 300 years (and the motivation of ending Vitiate) would make him insanely proficient. He's also got bonkers amounts of experience after 300 years of fighting powerful opponents and killing over 1100 of them. It was also notable that although he was decent in Revan, Nyriss and Revan both mention that Scourge still has tremendous amounts of force potential to unlock. Which I figure he did. He also has biochemical enhancements, has his combat prowess increased by Vitiate and has his special talent for feeding off of the emotions of his opponents (more than regular Sith). His massively levels of experience were also so good that he could quickly analyse a person and see their weaknesses.

And we see the "support" Scourge has in TOR. None. He walks up solo to a Republic military base to murder a former dark council member. And although he walks away, he was confident he could have succeeded despite Act II HoT being there and killed her and Sajar.

Kun was good sure but he was rivaled by Ulic and Vodo, he's not a transcendent swordsman above everyone else. Being unstoppable is obviously hyperbolic.