Originally posted by Col. Valerian
No, you have to augment their argumentative value to argue this point objectively. Provide proof that these artifacts actually had an effect on Nyriss's strength. I don't recall anything ever being said of this in Revan. And you, once again, ignored a very important fact: even though if what you claim is true and Malachor had little effect on the Exile, it still amped Traya. And she still got beat by the Exile.Besides, it doesn't really matter if Malachor had the same or lesser effect in Exile than DK. Considering she had to kill a ton of beasts and other Sith (including Sion) to get to Traya, there really is no way for her to have been in a better state when fighting Traya than when fighting Nyriss.
Provide proof that these particular Sith objects, very likely alchemically enhanced ones at that, are the exception to the rule because Sith objects always provide a boost to one's power.
What I claim? You mean what Drew Karpyshyn wrote. Yes it did amp Traya, to an unknown degree. Would you like to know what you keep ignoring? That Darth Traya has incredibly impressive feats off-nexus that belies the idea that she can't perform said feats off of a nexus. Darth Nyriss cannot claim the same thing.
Whilst she was likely physical tired after that, what you ignore is that Meetra was also not at full strength on Dromund Kaas either. Given her vacation to Nathema beforehand.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Provide proof that these particular Sith objects, very likely alchemically enhanced ones at that, are the exception to the rule because Sith objects always provide a boost to one's power.What I claim? You mean what Drew Karpyshyn wrote. Yes it did amp Traya, to an unknown degree. Would you like to know what you keep ignoring? That Darth Traya has incredibly impressive feats off-nexus that belies the idea that she can't perform said feats off of a nexus. Darth Nyriss cannot claim the same thing.
Whilst she was likely physical tired after that, what you ignore is that Meetra was also not at full strength on Dromund Kaas either. Given her vacation to Nathema beforehand.
Alchemically enhanced ones do provide a power boost, but it is a permanent one that remains with the Sith on and off the nexus, meaning DK has nothing to do with that. But Sith objects per se don't necessarily provide a boost. Eg, holocrons. Do you know exactly what type of Sith objects Nyriss owned?
You're helping me with your point. The fact that Surik defeated Traya even when she has incredibly impressive feats off nexus, shows just how powerful Nyriss is given that she outdueled Scourge and Surik simultaneously.
She was still in a better shape when facing Nyriss than Traya. As I said, going through Malachor killing a lot of beasts and Sith is worse than what she went through before she faced Nyriss.
The difference being that all Nyriss beating Surik proves is that she is faster than the Jedi is, because that is basically what it was, a speed-blitz. The Force in fact wasn't used much at all beyond a TK attack or two before Revan intervened.
That is the issue here, you are arguing that an amped Nyriss speedblitzing Surik proves she defeats Traya because Traya was out-skilled by Surik. There is no legitimate comparison to be made for Force powers. Which makes your already flawed ABC logic basis even less valid.
Finally, Meetra had to survive on Nathema through willpower to stop from being torn apart spiritually. A place she describes as infinitely worse than Malachor V. Then after this she went to a powerful nexus of Dark Side energy. Any way you put it Surik wasn't 100% on Dromund Kaas either.
Nyriss would be faster than Traya as well, so what?
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet Surik has not been described as anything more than mentally distraught and physically pressured whilst on the surface. Indeed by comparison to others that have been there she remained largely immune to it's effects.Dromund Kaas however was experimented on by the Sith Emperor and corrupted directly due to this. According to codex entries it was already a place strong with the Dark Side before they ever settled Kaas City, before the Citadel, before the Emperor's vast experiments, and before the Dark Temple's thousands of Sith spirits ever had an effect. On-top of this Nyriss had countless Sith artifacts, trinkets and more installed which would only enhance the powers there even further.
We can debate the strengths of the two worlds at length, but the important factor here is that Nyriss was in the depths of her own compound during all of her combat feats. We have to diminish their argumentative value to argue this point objectively.
Actually she says it was agony and the most awful and horrific experience of her life. That's a bit more than distraught. But just because it doesn't say she was weakened, doesn't mean she wasn't. As I'm sure you'd ****ing agree since that's what you're saying about Kaas, lol.
Traya also says this about Malachor:
"There is a place in the galaxy where the dark side of the Force runs strong. It is something of the Sith, but it was fueled by war. It corrupts all that walks on its surface—drowns them in the power of the dark side. It corrupts all life, and it feeds on death."
So if you want to believe that Meetra was weakened by Dromund Kaas then she'd have to be weakened by Malachor as well because it's just as much a nexus, if not more so, and specifically drowns people in the darkside. If however, you want to think that Meetra somehow wasn't affected by this, then wouldn't she ALSO not be affected by Kaas? Either she has an immunity to darkside nexuses or she doesn't.
That just caused lightning storms, it doesn't say it made it immensely more powerful or anything. And Malachor was also strong in the darkside before the MSG that caused a wound and made it into a place that could be used to drown Jedi in the darkside. Dromund Kaas in that era isn't nearly as corruptive as Malachor, as Kreia notes in other quotes and experienced herself. Also that artifacts stuff is nonsense. Theres nothing suggesting the were passively amping her just by being in somewhat proximity. It's entirely speculative that that was happening. And Malachor was also a treasure trove of Sith artifacts so that still doesn't matter, I guess Traya was evern more amped than we thought, lol.
Like I've said, diminish it if you want, despite the nexus never been mentioned as a factor at all. But you can't diminish it enough that she wouldn't have beaten Meetra anyway.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Provide proof that these particular Sith objects, very likely alchemically enhanced ones at that, are the exception to the rule because Sith objects always provide a boost to one's power.
When they're wearing them, lol. Or at least in the same dang room!