Originally posted by Sin I AM
Sentry came out early 2000s right? He was retconned into marvel history and a story was created about his disappearance. And by forced i mean just that, marvel attempted to create another pseudo superman.
Sentry is based on Miracleman, he's nothing to do with Superman in any way shape or form.
It was the year 2000 exactly that he was released. September to be exact.
Originally yes. But became pseudo superman later but that's subjective. He still fits the archetype. My problem with sentry is the way marvel tried to "make" us love him by creating a backstory that was insulting. Think about it, reed ricards best friend (phuck ben), the only guy who could calm hulk (betty who?), rogues love interest (poor gambit), helps angel get over his fear of falling (some professor charles is), etc. He's like the best person in the MU but he's a relatively new character. Id rather they do a soft retcon like with blue marvel or jessica Jones than the mockery of sentry
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Originally yes. But became pseudo superman later but that's subjective. He still fits the archetype. My problem with sentry is the way marvel tried to "make" us love him by creating a backstory that was insulting. Think about it, reed ricards best friend (phuck ben), the only guy who could calm hulk (betty who?), rogues love interest (poor gambit), helps angel get over his fear of falling (some professor charles is), etc. He's like the best person in the MU but he's a relatively new character. Id rather they do a soft retcon like with blue marvel or jessica Jones than the mockery of sentry
I don't think Marvel tried to make people love him, I like him as a character for personal reasons (not for what Marvel wrote for his history in Marvel lore).
I see it as a tragic story. He was the greatest hero there was. But ultimately the world had to be rid of him because of the Void. Obviously the mind wipe didn't work because he saw Scout in the restaurant and asked for a Chilli Dog (as he remembered something from when he and Billy were both superheroes).
I mean that's how I see it anyway. I don't think he ever was stated to be the only person who could calm Hulk. I just imagine that Sentry pretty much can always do it. As we find out in Sentry Vol 1 and 2 Hulk adores the Sentry. Hulk turns into a baby around him and follows his every order. It doesn't do Gambit a disservice either. It's just saying that the only person who could touch Rogue as Sentry. Which to me isn't a huge problem.
I don't see why you think that they disregarded other characters with Sentry when the whole point of his story is that he was supposedly the greatest hero. I'll just agree to disagree.
Only thing I will say is that I still don't see where he became a pseudo Superman.
The backstory is condescending. It places every hero in marvel earth as a supporting cast to sentrys awesomeness. It takes away from preestablished relationships and years of continuity to force a character upon us. I hate continuity retcons. Because it insults the reader and doesn't fix the problem. It's insulting. Sentrys not part of the silver age but we're gonna make him cause we're lazy.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I don't think Marvel tried to make people love him, I like him as a character for personal reasons (not for what Marvel wrote for his history in Marvel lore).I see it as a tragic story. He was the greatest hero there was. But ultimately the world had to be rid of him because of the Void. Obviously the mind wipe didn't work because he saw Scout in the restaurant and asked for a Chilli Dog (as he remembered something from when he and Billy were both superheroes).
I mean that's how I see it anyway. I don't think he ever was stated to be the only person who could calm Hulk. I just imagine that Sentry pretty much can always do it. As we find out in Sentry Vol 1 and 2 Hulk adores the Sentry. Hulk turns into a baby around him and follows his every order. It doesn't do Gambit a disservice either. It's just saying that the only person who could touch Rogue as Sentry. Which to me isn't a huge problem.
I don't see why you think that they disregarded other characters with Sentry when the whole point of his story is that he was supposedly the greatest hero. I'll just agree to disagree.
Only thing I will say is that I still don't see where he became a pseudo Superman.
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Originally posted by Sin I AM
The backstory is condescending. It places every hero in marvel earth as a supporting cast to sentrys awesomeness. It takes away from preestablished relationships and years of continuity to force a character upon us. I hate continuity retcons. Because it insults the reader and doesn't fix the problem. It's insulting. Sentrys not part of the silver age but we're gonna make him cause we're lazy.
It isn't to me. And nowhere in that mini was Sentry described as awesome at all.
In fact the mini like I said tells the story of an overweight American who remembers he was once the greatest hero on Earth, he was around before anyone else. He helped people deal with phobia's. He was a best friend of Reed. And to note his love interest with Rogue happened after that mini not before or in it. I could explain more but that's the gist of it. While the world needs a hero like Sentry. He just cannot be allowed to exist because the Void is too much of a danger.
Like I mentioned I have really compacted it. It's a tragic story not a
"Oh look at this awesome superhero who did everything and was the best"
I completely disagree with you there.
I don't understand how you think Paul Jenkins is lazy in any way. And it doesn't insult the reader either. Because the story like I said isn't about showing how awesome Robert is. It's about telling a tragic story.
But as I said it is best to agree to disagree.
Honestly, gonna have to disagree to an extent. I liked the original mini, but as time went on, I found some of the portrayals of him to be a little preachy, and the portrayal of the Sentry to be somewhat marty stuish.
I for one hated the Rogue stuff, tbh.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Sentry is based on Miracleman, he's nothing to do with Superman in any way shape or form.It was the year 2000 exactly that he was released. September to be exact.
Bendis wanted him to be Marvel's Superman, though. At least to an extent.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Sentry is based on Miracleman, he's nothing to do with Superman in any way shape or form.It was the year 2000 exactly that he was released. September to be exact.
Miracleman is based on Captain Marvel who was based on Superman. So essentially sentry is a clone of a clone? Nearly every writer from Bendis to Remender has described him as an unhinged Superman? I mean what is wrong in being based on Superman that every sentry fan denies it?
Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, gonna have to disagree to an extent. I liked the original mini, but as time went on, I found some of the portrayals of him to be a little preachy, and the portrayal of the Sentry to be somewhat marty stuish.I for one hated the Rogue stuff, tbh.
Bendis wanted him to be Marvel's Superman, though. At least to an extent.
Sure, but his origin is rooted in what Jenkins done for him.
Bendis could wish for Sentry to be Marvel's Darkseid. He could give his a costume similar to current Sentry. He could change subtle things about him but unless it is completely retconned and Bendis says Sentry was a being that was sent in a shuttle from the planet Temporalon then I don't consider what Bendis wanted for Sentry to be true. I know what you're saying -Pr- of course about Bendis but as we know from Miracleman and Sentry's origin they both start pretty much exactly the same. They both wake up after a nightmare. They're both overweight in their human forms (with almost the exact same look). They both have that opposite side with kid Miracleman.
What portrayals of him did you find to be preachy?
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
It isn't to me. And nowhere in that mini was Sentry described as awesome at all.In fact the mini like I said tells the story of an overweight American who remembers he was once the greatest hero on Earth, he was around before anyone else. He helped people deal with phobia's. He was a best friend of Reed. And to note his love interest with Rogue happened after that mini not before or in it. I could explain more but that's the gist of it. While the world needs a hero like Sentry. He just cannot be allowed to exist because the Void is too much of a danger.
Like I mentioned I have really compacted it. It's a tragic story not a
"Oh look at this awesome superhero who did everything and was the best"
I completely disagree with you there.
I don't understand how you think Paul Jenkins is lazy in any way. And it doesn't insult the reader either. Because the story like I said isn't about showing how awesome Robert is. It's about telling a tragic story.
But as I said it is best to agree to disagree.
I actually "liked" the sentry. But i feel his story relegated the other heroes to back up. Once the mini concluded marvel had no idea how to flesh him out. Placing him in the new avengers was a terrible idea. He doesn't fit the dynamic. He's no Thor, he's comes off as more of a cosmic character imo but meh. I think the cloc scenarios were well thought out and honestly I'd leave it at that. Him constantly running around the world stopping disasters but not really being intrinsically tied to teams or events. He's just too powerful.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Miracleman is based on Captain Marvel who was based on Superman. So essentially sentry is a clone of a clone? Nearly every writer from Bendis to Remender has described him as an unhinged Superman? I mean what is wrong in being based on Superman that every sentry fan denies it?
Because he isn't based on Superman at all. They are both completely different. Tell me how Superman and Sentry are similar in their origins. Because I can tell you. And you probably know that they are both very different.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Because he isn't based on Superman at all. They are both completely different. Tell me how Superman and Sentry are similar in their origins. Because I can tell you. And you probably know that they are both very different.
If I start listing the similarities between superman and sentry, we will be here for hours. Heck, even the idea of Sentry/Void was taken from a superman story which depicted Superman and Clark Kent separating and Clark becoming the greatest villain on earth. So you tell me, why is Sentry being based on Miracleman is OK with you but being based on superman isn't. It's long due that sentry fans stop feeling inferior about this fact.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Their origins being different doesn't means much. Tell me, how is Captain Marvel based on superman by your reasoning?If I start listing the similarities between superman and sentry, we will be here for hours. Heck, even the idea of Sentry/Void was taken from a superman story which depicted Superman and Clark Kent separating and Clark becoming the greatest villain on earth. So you tell me, why is Sentry being based on Miracleman is OK with you but being based on superman isn't. It's long due that sentry fans stop feeling inferior about this fact.
Abhi I don't see why you're acting as if it was stated that he was based on Superman it would make me feel bad. I couldn't care less if he was. You may debate with other Sentry fans that pull their hair out and become angered at reading such words but I don't care.
All I was saying is that Miracleman and Sentry's origins were closer. I don't have a problem with Sentry being based on Superman. I just don't think he is.
I just don't see why you are lumping me in with a group of Sentry fans who feel "inferior" because of the possibility of that being true.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, gonna have to disagree to an extent. I liked the original mini, but as time went on, I found some of the portrayals of him to be a little preachy, and the portrayal of the Sentry to be somewhat marty stuish.I for one hated the Rogue stuff, tbh.
Bendis wanted him to be Marvel's Superman, though. At least to an extent.
You just wished Cyke banged her too.