Rebels vs. Darksiders
Luke Skywalker as of Return of the Jedi.
Ahsoka Tano as of The Clone Wars: Season 5.
Kanan Jarrus as of Rebels: Season 1.
Ezra Bridger as of Rebels: Season 1.
Darth Maul as of Son of Dathomir.
Asajj Ventress as of The Clone Wars: Season 5.
Legends feats allowed for Luke, all others restricted to only canon feats. Battle takes place on Kiros.
I personally think SOD Maul is above Luke. TPM Maul would be more his rival IMO.
Kanan and Ahsoka together will probably give Ventress a decent fight.
I'm sure Kanan by the end of S1 is above Season 5 Ahsoka. He did defeat the Inquisitor after all. So not sure why people still think Kanan would be fodder but not Ahsoka.
Remind me why I should be impressed by the Inquisitor. And you're all about training when it comes to Jedi, right? Well Ahsoka has two more years of formal training on Kanan.
Grievous, Ventress, Barriss are all vastly superior to Mr. Inquisitor and Ahsoka's performance against them should be sufficient proof she's better than Kanan.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Remind me why I should be impressed by the Inquisitor. And you're all about training when it comes to Jedi, right? Well Ahsoka has two more years of formal training on Kanan.Grievous, Ventress, Barriss are all vastly superior to Mr. Inquisitor and Ahsoka's performance against them should be sufficient proof she's better than Kanan.
I'm not "all about the training" but even if i was Ahsoka as of S5 had more training than Kanan as of ROTS. But we don't know how much of his skills he's honed in the 15 years since. He vastly improved his Saber skills in just 1 season, going from being almost a non-factor to Inquisitor to outright being a match for him, and even defeating him.
TCW Ahsoka losing to Grievous, Ventress and Barris is hardly solid proof she's better than Rebels Kanan.
Inquisitor was Vader's Jedi hunting machine. That in it self implies him to be above Padawan level Imo. TCW Ahsoka ain't no Jedi Council member whose gonna trash Inquisitor/Kanan level.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERPretty sure Kanan barely touched his saber in the past 15 years, and he was actively suppressing his Force abilities/senses. I find it highly unlikely he improved at all.
I'm not "all about the training" but even if i was Ahsoka as of S5 had more training than Kanan as of ROTS. But we don't know how much of his skills he's honed in the 15 years since.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERI think "vastly" is an overstatement. And Kanan was never really a non-factor against Inquisitor, honestly. On Stygeon Prime, the Inquisitor failed to beat Kanan via sabers and resorted to his Force power. An inexperienced, rusty Padawan that had 14 years of training in the Temple. I mean, obviously Inquisitor was toying with him in the prison cell, but after Kanan and Ezra retreated and went into the hall Inquisitor wasn't really dominating him in sabers at all. If he is supposed to be this "big bad Jedi slayer" he should shit-stomp Kanan in every area. Inquisitor was probably just used for scrubs that weren't even worth Vader's time.
He vastly improved his Saber skills in just 1 season, going from being almost a non-factor to Inquisitor to outright being a match for him, and even defeating him.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERI really don't feel like explaining why her holding her own against them is impressive. You should know it is. Grievous and Ventress would stomp Kanan and the Inquisitor simultaneously on their worst day, though.
TCW Ahsoka losing to Grievous, Ventress and Barris is hardly solid proof she's better than Rebels Kanan.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERInquisitor was probably the dude who hunted down Jedi, like, Bolla Ropal. Jedi plebs.
Inquisitor was Vader's Jedi hunting machine. That in it self implies him to be above Padawan level Imo. TCW Ahsoka ain't no Jedi Council member whose gonna trash Inquisitor/Kanan level.
Maybe not trash, but Ahsoka has them in the bag.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Pretty sure Kanan barely touched his saber in the past 15 years, and he was actively suppressing his Force abilities/senses. I find it highly unlikely he improved at all.I think "vastly" is an overstatement. And Kanan was never really a non-factor against Inquisitor, honestly. On Stygeon Prime, the Inquisitor failed to beat Kanan via sabers and resorted to his Force power. An inexperienced, rusty Padawan that had 14 years of training in the Temple. I mean, obviously Inquisitor was toying with him in the prison cell, but after Kanan and Ezra retreated and went into the hall Inquisitor wasn't really dominating him in sabers at all. If he is supposed to be this "big bad Jedi slayer" he should shit-stomp Kanan in every area. Inquisitor was probably just used for scrubs that weren't even worth Vader's time.
I really don't feel like explaining why her holding her own against them is impressive. You should know it is. Grievous and Ventress would stomp Kanan and the Inquisitor simultaneously on their worst day, though.
Inquisitor was probably the dude who hunted down Jedi, like, Bolla Ropal. Jedi plebs.
Maybe not trash, but Ahsoka has them in the bag.
👆
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Pretty sure Kanan barely touched his saber in the past 15 years, and he was actively suppressing his Force abilities/senses. I find it highly unlikely he improved at all.
It's true he barely touched his Lightsaber until Rebels began, but his other abilities would have improved over time. He met Hera 5 years previously and has been using his Jedi abilities to help her since then (A New Dawn).
Those other Force abilities would aid him in Sabers once he began honing his Saber skills again.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I think "vastly" is an overstatement. And Kanan was never really a non-factor against Inquisitor, honestly. On Stygeon Prime, the Inquisitor failed to beat Kanan via sabers and resorted to his Force power. An inexperienced, rusty Padawan that had 14 years of training in the Temple. I mean, obviously Inquisitor was toying with him in the prison cell, but after Kanan and Ezra retreated and went into the hall Inquisitor wasn't really dominating him in sabers at all. If he is supposed to be this "big bad Jedi slayer" he should shit-stomp Kanan in every area.
What? Inquisitor was toying with Kanan in the prison and vastly outmatched him in every way at that point in time:
?v=k3p2tsmhvag
From 1:12 to 1:20 he's completely toying with him before Ezra distracts him. Then out in the hall again at 1:47-1:57 he appears to be toying with him again until again Ezra starts firing.
The only time Kanan puts up any kind of real lightsaber battle is when he's angry at 2:05 until he backs off at like like 2:08. So that was like 3 seconds. And we see Kanan get ragdolled by Inq in TK right up until the last few episodes.
Here's their second fight in which Kanan has improved already:
?v=KZYvJh_UjLo
Kanan is giving him a fight (in Sabers) this time. But even still The Inq is driving Kanan back from 0:29-0:40 at which point Kanan knows he's outmatched again so desperately tries going for his gun mid-Saber fight. Inq tosses the gun aside and then KO's Kanan with Tk.
So yeah up until the final episodes, Kanan was vastly outmatched by the Inq, and was never a match for his Tk.
So Kana's Saber duelling definitely did Vastly improve throughout S1.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Inquisitor was probably just used for scrubs that weren't even worth Vader's time.
I'm not suggesting he's used against any high level Jedi. But surely Vader's Inquisitor should be able to take out an average Knight. That's the implication I get anyway. I could be wrong of course.
But Ahsoka was still Padawan level as far as I'm aware. A talented Padawan who may well be =/> your average Knight, but surely not anything above and beyond that.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I really don't feel like explaining why her holding her own against them is impressive. You should know it is. Grievous and Ventress would stomp Kanan and the Inquisitor simultaneously on their worst day, though.
Yeah that would be great if Ahsoka ever did actually hold her own against Ventress by herself. But she didn't. Ventress can stomp TCW Ahsoka with utter ease.
As for Grievous, Filoni's never held him in high regard (and it his through his statements we know Inquisitor and Kanan are not even close to being high tier), so I wouldn't put too much into her temporarily holding him off in TCW. She just held him off making time to escape. You honestly can't think the Inquisitor or Kanan wouldn't be capable of achieving that much against TCW Grievous on his worst day? May I remind you on TCW Grievous's worst day he was defeated by Gungans.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERFew and far between. He was hiding from being a Jedi so he wouldn't have used any telekinesis in combat.
It's true he barely touched his Lightsaber until Rebels began, but his other abilities would have improved over time. He met Hera 5 years previously and has been using his Jedi abilities to help her since then (A New Dawn).
Originally posted by DARTH POWERYou know this how?
Those other Force abilities would aid him in Sabers once he began honing his Saber skills again.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERHow does he appear to be toying with him? Inquisitor appears to have no edge over him to me, except he's just slightly pushing him back. Then he starts to use Dun Möch to gain an edge.
What? Inquisitor was toying with Kanan in the prison and vastly outmatched him in every way at that point in time:From 1:12 to 1:20 he's completely toying with him before Ezra distracts him. Then out in the hall again at 1:47-1:57 he appears to be toying with him again until again Ezra starts firing.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERAll he did was dodge, wasn't really like a 'I'm gonna back up now 'cause he's just so dang skilled' moment. And the Inquisitor has inferior Force feats to Ahsoka.
The only time Kanan puts up any kind of real lightsaber battle is when he's angry at 2:05 until he backs off at like like 2:08. So that was like 3 seconds. And we see Kanan get ragdolled by Inq in TK right up until the last few episodes.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERLOL! He did worse than he did in his first fight!
Here's their second fight in which Kanan has improved already:Kanan is giving him a fight (in Sabers) this time. But even still The Inq is driving Kanan back from 0:29-0:40 at which point Kanan knows he's outmatched again so desperately tries going for his gun mid-Saber fight. Inq tosses the gun aside and then KO's Kanan with Tk.
Damn, Kanan, you suck. Better match would be against Zett Jukassa or someone like that tbh.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERNot vastly. And Kanan's usage of Ezra's lightsaber in such a tactical manner gave him a huge edge on the Inquisitor, allowing him to back the Inquisitor up to a disadvantageous position.
So Kana's Saber duelling definitely did Vastly improve throughout S1.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERAhsoka would slaughter your average Knight.
I'm not suggesting he's used against any high level Jedi. But surely Vader's Inquisitor should be able to take out an average Knight. That's the implication I get anyway. I could be wrong of course.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But Ahsoka was still Padawan level as far as I'm aware. A talented Padawan who may well be =/> your average Knight, but surely not anything above and beyond that.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah that would be great if Ahsoka ever did actually hold her own against Ventress by herself. But she didn't. Ventress can stomp TCW Ahsoka with utter ease.
?v=zIILZSJhpYk
Probably a few weeks after becoming Anakin's apprentice. 👆 Now that's what saber improvement is. She was literally defeated in five seconds against Ventress in TCW movie. Now look at her. :'😉 So proud.
Just imagine two more years training with one of the most skilled duelists in the Order. Wow. Kanan is going to get massacred. Too bad his only saber feats are losing to a featless character. Unlike Ahsoka who's fought people with established skill level.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERI couldn't care less.
As for Grievous, Filoni's never held him in high regard
Originally posted by DARTH POWEREven though he's gone toe-to-toe with Council masters? Interesting.
I wouldn't put too much into her temporarily holding him off in TCW.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERI do. And it'd be a beautiful slaughterhouse. As for the Gungan thing:
You honestly can't think the Inquisitor or Kanan wouldn't be capable of achieving that much against TCW Grievous on his worst day? May I remind you on TCW Grievous's worst day he was defeated by Gungans.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Okay... we all know this fight that is often referenced and ridiculed as this character's absolute worst showing ever... Grievous's defeat at the hands of Gungans.The Defeated: My personal viewpoint here is that Grievous got way too cocky. Given the fact that arrogance is very prominent amongst his tendencies, this argument makes a whole lot of since. Let's also consider the fact that Grievous was fighting Gungans. Consider how seriously we take Gungans for example, and it becomes easy to visualize how Grievous could view them in a similar way. This line of thought is heavily supported by Grievous's first line upon seeing his opponents, "You can't be serious." Pair Grievous's arrogance with how hard it is to take Gungans seriously and it starts to paint a picture of just how cocky Grievous must've been prior to his injury. He only stops being cocky once he has an electrospear stuck through his body and by that point, well he has an electrospear stuck through his body. So Grievous was definitely underperforming for this entire fight.
MVP: Tarpals was a General in the Gungan Grand army. He was also shown as being skilled enough to last a few seconds against Grievous while his fellow Gungans got slaughtered by Grievous with almost casual disdain. Tarpals also did a cool little kick weapon up from the ground with foot and catch it thing before actually engaging Grievous. While this may seem unimportant, it does suggest that the creators of TCW are building up Tarpals as a skilled badass. Last of all Tarpals was able to muster the strength to stab his spear through Grievous's armored chasis while mortally wounded. So in short, Tarpals seems to be a very capable warrior in his own right.
Victorious force: Gungans have a bit of negative connotation as a result of how ****ing stupid Jar Jar is. What you have to remember is that Jar Jar is just as stupid by their standards, and that is why they banished him from their city. With this in mind, some of the negative connotation they receive may be unfair. The Gungans Grievous faced were trained warriors, and not what is arguably the characterized version of syphilis, Jar Jar Binks. Some of the Gungans were armed with Boomers, a ball of condensed electrified plasma that shared some properties with an EMP. Such properties would be highly effective against a cyborg, like Grievous, should they successfully land a blow. There were also a lot of Gungans.
Conclusion: Grievous walked into the fight, not taking the Gungans seriously at all due to his own hubris and how ridiculous they seem, and killed those who attacked him with casual disdain. Then Tarpals, who is arguably their most skilled warrior stepped in, but despite all of his efforts, Grievous made short work of him, mortally wounding him. Being overwhelmingly cocky, Grievous certainly did not expect a Gungan he just mortally wounded to be capable of stabbing a spear through his body, but Tarpals did because he is a badass. Grievous was no longer cocky at that point, but was now seriously wounded, stunned and surrounded by several trained warriors armed with weaponry that is highly effective against machinery, such as Grievous's own cybernetics. Before Grievous had any time to recover, the Gungan army brought him down with their weaponry from all angles. Essentially the entire fight boiled down to one pivotal moment where an extremely cocky Grievous underestimated a highly skilled Gungan who he had mortally wounded.
Kanan is so outmatched by Ahsoka it's not even funny.
Also why are we even debating Ahsoka vs. Kanan when they're on the same team in the thread? LOL
Originally posted by |King Joker|Kanan is so outmatched by Ahsoka it's not even funny.
Also why are we even debating Ahsoka vs. Kanan when they're on the same team in the thread? LOL
I'm not that arsed about this so not going to bother addressing your whole post, but will just address a few things. Oh and calm down will you.
I do think this idea that Rebels Kanan is laughably outmatched by TCW Ahsoka really has no basis. If I've missed something where she's clearly and Uber Padawan whose better than most Knights, then by all means point it to me.
I forgot about that portion of the Ventress vs Ahsoka you posted, I basically remembered the Luminara and Ahsoka vs Ventress. Still dude that was like S1 Ahsoka. You can't honestly think if Ventress went all out there that Ahsoka would still be alive. She was defeating a legendary Jedi Master later on.
And I dunno, you seem to be seeing completely different Inquisitor/Kanan fights to me.
I think people may generally have just really underrated Kanan and The Inquisitor based on Filoni's comments. But Filoni was comparing them to frigging Vader and Obi-Wan.
Sure they'd probably get their asses kicked by any Council Member. But again people forget Council Members were the top elite Jedi of an order consisting of 10,000. So I doubt TCW Ahsoka is anywhere near that level either.
The thing with me is that the Inquisitor has no feats prior to Rebels, and he doesn't have any accolades to gauge his skill level. So Kanan defeating him to me isn't that impressive, especially given the circumstances of their last fight. Ahsoka on the other hand has performed astoundingly well against foes that have a established skill levels and are just completely and totally badass. Her feats are quantifiable. And if we bring in Legends into the mix where Ventress stomps Jedi with ease, then Ahsoka is easily above your average Knight. And even if we do look at an average Jedi in the main canon, they're likely to be completely inexperienced fighting in duels and were used to peace for most of their life. Ahsoka is molded during the Clone Wars and has way more experience then they ever would. Plus being trained by Anakin Skywalker doesn't help. He's also stated that he forgets how young she is because her abilities are so advanced in S2.
And by the way Filoni's statements regarding Kaman and the Inquisitor did not affect how I see them as combatants in the slightest.
Fair enough.
But talking of dueling experience, the Inquisitor will most definitely be experienced at dueling. As all he does is hunt down any remaining Jedi to kill them. Plus his first duel with Kanan he instantly analysed and knew not only what his form was, but who specifically trained him. So I'm guessing Vader's trained him pretty damn well.
But yeah I agree Kanan wasn't really the Inquistor's equal even by the season end. Especially not in the Force.
Freddie Prinze Jr. says Ahsoka would own Kanan.
https://twitter.com/CoffeeWthKenobi/status/583232682538229760
57:30