Barsenthor vs. Cade Skywalker

Cade seemed to express that dark transfer only becomes more difficult in a healing sense when the injuries are worse (Krayt's compared to the other people he had healed). I imagine offensively it'd be different - since Krayt's body was in such terrible shape with his Vong disease, Cade would have an easier time blowing him apart from the inside. In fact, as long as there is an injury at all, I don't see how one can't use dark transfer offensively.

I don't see what it has to do with the power of his opponent.

This was my thinking also.

Thor is a ranged fighter anyway.

Cade's barriers are good enough to make it close quarters.

Even going by that route, he needs a meaningful injury first, and the only way he'd really do that is with his saber, and injuries with his saber would probably give him a win in of themselves. His TK won't be enough to injure the Consular since they're about equal in that regard.

And as I said, he really hasn't shown Dark Transfer mid-duel. Or anybody of the Barsen'thor's class, anyway.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Even going by that route, he needs a meaningful injury first, and the only way he'd really do that is with his saber, and injuries with his saber would probably give him a win in of themselves. His TK won't be enough to injure the Consular since they're about equal in that regard.

And as I said, he really hasn't shown Dark Transfer mid-duel. Or anybody of the Barsen'thor's class, anyway.

So, yes, if he got his hands on 'thor he most certainly could wipe her out with Dark Transfer. All he needs is physical combat. Given that he's the better fighter here, I'd say it's a possibility worth considering. Still a good fight, but Dark Transfer isn't to be underestimated.

There's a difference between "hasn't", and can't.

Originally posted by Trocity
Cade's barriers are good enough to make it close quarters.

Krayt was able to toss him around and he has weaker TK than Thor. Maybe his barriers are up to it, but she's a lot more skilled with the Force than him.

Cade. Better than Thor in just about everything.

Barsen'thor solidly.

Originally posted by carthage
That was all vague, Cade has better if not comparable telekinetic feats. As is usual with TOR characters, they usually have amps but suck as duelists and or are just hyped characters that lack showings.

He's thrown a ship, withstood a massive explosion that destroyed an entire lab, ragdolled Darth Talon who could smash an entire stone floor/rip memories from IK'S, and is capable of Shatterpoint/Dark transfer which Barsen has no response too. The Skill factor is also decidedly in his favor beating Nihl/Talon at once, beating Antares Draco, beating Vong warriors, and briefly holding his own against Darth Krayt put him solidly above Barsen in skill

They're pretty comparable in power, actually but Barsen has no response to shatterpoint or dark transfer and Cade's got better skill feats. He wins in a decent fight

👆

Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt was able to toss him around and he has weaker TK than Thor. Maybe his barriers are up to it, but she's a lot more skilled with the Force than him.

Originally posted by ILS
Eh, actually, I'd say Krayt TKing Cade in such a manner itself is better than 'thor's showings, given how powerful Cade is, as well as the fact he was always improving throughout Legacy.

Or it shows that Cade isn't always gonna be capable of creating a full force bubble capable of tanking a base explosion while in combat. And all of Thor's best TK feats were done in the first year of her career and in a weakened condition. Except for her smashing into a Rakatan Vault which I thinks above Cade's paygrade.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or it shows that Cade isn't always gonna be capable of creating a full force bubble capable of tanking a base explosion while in combat. And all of Thor's best TK feats were done in the first year of her career and in a weakened condition. Except for her smashing into a Rakatan Vault which I thinks above Cade's paygrade.

I dunno, the vault feat seems comparable to Cade's lab feat in scope, without getting too mathematical.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or it shows that Cade isn't always gonna be capable of creating a full force bubble capable of tanking a base explosion while in combat. And all of Thor's best TK feats were done in the first year of her career and in a weakened condition. Except for her smashing into a Rakatan Vault which I thinks above Cade's paygrade.

Originally posted by ILS
I wasn't saying he can create a bubble whenever he wants. I'm saying that he's powerful because of that feat, and others, and thus Krayt nonchalantly TKing him is a superb feat that I doubt 'thor could replicate.

I dunno, the vault feat seems comparable to Cade's lab feat in scope, without getting too mathematical.

And I'm just saying that Cade isn't an uber-tank with impenetrable shields. Even if his barriers are legit great, I'd still argue that Thor is much more skilled and focused on offensive TK and can get through them or around them. It's not just gonna be Cade tanking through everything then crushing her in melee.

I doubt it, that vault was supposed to be impenetrable whereas blowing up a lab is within normal capabilities. I'd also point to Thor tanking an explosion that disintegrated a blast door, while highly weakened and 2+ years before her prime and with enough power to then go on and fight through an entire capital ship and beat down Vivicar, as indicating she's got more raw power. But thats just me.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So Cade must have inferior Force defenses to be TK'd by Krayt? That's the only way that logic makes any sense.

Krayt doesn't have many good TK feats though. Outside of TK'ing Cade, Thor far outstrips him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And mine is that Cade isn't an uber-tank with impenetrable shields.

Even if his barriers are legit great, I'd still argue that Thor is much more skilled and focused on offensive TK and can get through them or around them. It's not just gonna be Cade tanking through everything then crushing her in melee.

I doubt it, that vault was supposed to be impenetrable whereas blowing up a lab is within normal capabilities. I'd also point to Thor tanking an explosion that disintegrated a blast door, while highly weakened and 2+ years before her prime and with enough power to then go on and fight through an entire capital ship and beat down Vivicar, as indicating she's got more raw power. But thats just me.

Tanking an explosion that destroyed one door is good, but pales in comparison to Cade's lab feat in scope, regardless of her being weakened and two years pre-prime.

If we want to talk powerscaling - after seven years of straight death stick addiction, which reduces one's connection to the Force, Cade's first usage of telekinesis since then was throwing a starfighter wreckage at Talon and sending her off into the horizon with it, which was done with moderate difficulty. After that he received re-training from the Jedi, training from Krayt, and probably some other sprucing up in the 20+ issues I need to read. His telekinesis would be considerably more potent end series, which easily contends with 'thor tanking a door-busting explosion with your noted circumstances.

So again, power is really a toss up for me, but Cade seems better with a lightsaber.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt doesn't have many good TK feats though. Outside of TK'ing Cade, Thor far outstrips him.

Originally posted by ILS
Cade seemed to express that dark transfer only becomes more difficult in a healing sense when the injuries are worse (Krayt's compared to the other people he had healed). I imagine offensively it'd be different - since Krayt's body was in such terrible shape with his Vong disease, Cade would have an easier time blowing him apart from the inside. In fact, as long as there is an injury at all, I don't see how one can't use dark transfer offensively.

Heck, when Krayt used it on Cade to kill then revive him, I don't think Cade was wounded at all. Even an uninjured person has shatterpoints via which they can become wounded, wounds just make it all the easier.

Originally posted by ILS
I don't think he does, actually. He used it on Darth Talon because of an imperceptible wound - if you could even call it that - and he used it successfully on Shado Vao, who was in perfect health, and was fully capable of killing him with it were he so inclined. It's a combination of Dark Transfer and Shatterpoint which allows Cade to pour an overwhelming amount of Force energy into any small areas of a being that could be healed, and by pouring in more than he needs to, he rips them apart from the inside.

So, yes, if he got his hands on 'thor he most certainly could wipe her out with Dark Transfer. All he needs is physical combat. Given that he's the better fighter here, I'd say it's a possibility worth considering. Still a good fight, but Dark Transfer isn't to be underestimated.

There's a difference between "hasn't", and can't.

Shatterpoint does allow its use on minor wounds, but the point I'm trying to get across is you usually don't detect Shatterpoints on people of your class - usually on fodder/people well below your general class. I mean, I can't even remember an instance in which somebody has detected a Shatterpoint in somebody of their level.

I know there's a difference, but that difference is generally only apparent in a morals-off encounter, not morals-on.

Originally posted by ILS
He doesn't need to be.

Well bluh bluh.

Originally posted by ILS
I find the idea that 'thor can take victory through telekinesis alone/primarily unlikely. The gap in their combat abilities seem larger than their Force power. What specifically is it about 'thor's offensive TK that allows them to overwhelm Cade in this scenario?

The same thing that let her overwhelm her other opponents? The First Son was actually stronger than her in TK. She doesn't expressly need to overpower her opponents, she just outfight them. Her combat record is filled with her being highly weakened or outmatched in power yet still managing to pull it off. Highly weakened and tired she still manages to outfight an ancient Sith drawing on power from hundreds of Jedi Masters. What has Cade done that's better than that? She's simply the better Force user, in power as well as in skill and combat ability. And she has abilities other than just TK.

Originally posted by ILS
Define "was supposed to be impenetrable".

It's stated to be impenetrable.

Originally posted by ILS
And define "normal capabilities". What kind of weaponry are you suggesting couldn't destroy that door, but could replicate the explosion that wiped out the entire lab?

The..... explosive that destroyed the lab? If conventional explosives could blow through that door I doubt the vaults would be labelled impenetrable.

Originally posted by ILS
Tanking an explosion that destroyed one door is good, but pales in comparison to Cade's lab feat in scope, regardless of her being weakened and two years pre-prime.

I disagree immensely, particularly when accounting for what she does directly after that feat.

Originally posted by ILS
If we want to talk powerscaling - after seven years of straight death stick addiction, which reduces one's connection to the Force, Cade's first usage of telekinesis since then was throwing a starfighter wreckage at Talon and sending her off into the horizon with it, which was done with moderate difficulty. After that he received re-training from the Jedi, training from Krayt, and probably some other sprucing up in the 20+ issues I need to read. His telekinesis would be considerably more potent end series, which easily contends with 'thor tanking a door-busting explosion with your noted circumstances.

And while weakened and very inexperienced Thor tossed a similarly sized solid chunk of metal an equal distance casually. And then casually busted through a building-sized blast door with one hand. Powerscale that with 3 years of prodigal growth, unweakened.

Originally posted by ILS
So again, power is really a toss up for me, but Cade seems better with a lightsaber.

Whereas to me the Barsen'thor just seems a better fighter in general. She's had far better victories than Cade has. She's smarter, more skilled overall and imo the more powerful.