Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oxygen. Vector is repelling oxygen.If he doesn't, well, have you ever seen Red Tornado fight? Imagine those winds.
Read his first sentence. He is repelling the cold that is "coming at him". It wouldn't even reach him before Magneto is turned to ashes. Now do you get what I am saying. Read Magnon first sentence.
Originally posted by Magnon
Whether or not he is repelling it, is his choice (he will lose anyway)... but Magneto's attack in my scenario consists of a flow of ultracold oxygen drawn magnetically from the upper atmosphere.The general battlegroud IS on a planetary surface, in a generic environment. That includes standard gravity, atmosphere, humidity, etc.
Or are you saying e.g. Storm auto-loses all of her fights because of your silly insistence of 'no environmental features'?
So what Vector is repelling hasn't even reached him yet? Yeah, Vector stomps.
Originally posted by carver9
So what Vector is repelling hasn't even reached him yet? Yeah, Vector stomps.
If it reaches Vector, he will lose. If he doesn't allow it to reach him, he will also lose (because he needs oxygen).
Magneto will just need to stay out at a safe distance and channel this attack at Vector. Magneto wins.
Originally posted by Magnon
If it reaches Vector, he will lose. If he doesn't allow it to reach him, he will also lose (because he needs oxygen).Magneto will just need to stay out at a safe distance and channel this attack at Vector. Magneto wins.
Lol...there is no safe distance and you're acting like this attack (even if it reaches him) is coming from all angels, when it's not. That's all Vector has to do is repel it, Oxygen still will be coming to him unless you can show me this attack you are talking about engulfing the entire area.
Vector will be ok...
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsU-Foes22.jpg.html
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...there is no safe distance and you're acting like this attack (even if it reaches him) is coming from all angels, when it's not. That's all Vector has to do is repel it, Oxygen still will be coming to him unless you can show me this attack you are talking about engulfing the entire area.Vector will be ok...
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media-full/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsU-Foes22.jpg.html
Of course there is a safe distance, something like 100 meters should already be enough if Mags has his shields up. But it can be much larger than that: Magneto can work across interplanetary distances if need be, Vector can not.
The attack I'm describing is indeed affecting the whole area around Vector; the column of cold air would be quite massive. And Magneto can multitask; if Vector leaves a direction open, any direction, Magneto can attack from that direction. Would Vector for example repel also the ground beneath his feet, or risk getting surprise-impaled by a metal spike from below?
Mags in his 'prime' is just too versatile, smart, and powerful for Vector.
Originally posted by zopzop
This line of reasoning doesn't work with Vector. Even when he's repelling anything and everything, he still manages to breathe somehow.
The logical explanation is that he is NOT repelling 'anything and everything, and still managing to breathe'. Perhaps he always leaves a direction open for the air to get in, or perhaps he just holds his breath and this limits how long he can use his power continuously. Or maybe he can choose not to repel air. Lots of possibilities.
Originally posted by Magnon
Of course there is a safe distance, something like 100 meters should already be enough if Mags has his shields up. But it can be much larger than that: Magneto can work across interplanetary distances if need be, Vector can not.The attack I'm describing is indeed affecting the whole area around Vector; the column of cold air would be quite massive. And Magneto can multitask; if Vector leaves a direction open, any direction, Magneto can attack from that direction. Would Vector for example repel also the ground beneath his feet, or risk getting surprise-impaled by a metal spike from below?
Mags in his 'prime' is just too versatile, smart, and powerful for Vector.
Show me Magneto shields withstanding an attack of the magnitude I showed in my scan. I'm about to look at this scene you are talking about since I think you are overexaggerating.
Originally posted by carver9
Show me Magneto shields withstanding an attack of the magnitude I showed in my scan. I'm about to look at this scene you are talking about since I think you are overexaggerating.
There are plenty. We are talking about an attack which is 'weak' enough not to draw blood from Hulk immediately; in this case even the distance between them is very short, something like 20 meters, and the Hulk is even trying to move closer to Vector.
Mags would be further (100+ meters) away NOT trying to resist/move towards the force, using shields that have much better track record tanking e.g. Mjolnir strikes than Hulk's face.
So.. would you like me to post a scan of Mags' shields blocking Mjolnir, or multiple simultaneous nukes, or orbital plasma cannon, or similar? Because each of these feats would suffice here. Vector had to struggle to get through the force field on Agamemnon's door, even though he was at point-blank range focusing all his power on it for extended period of time. Mags shields would only have to have a fraction of that strength to protect him in my scenario (1. much larger distance, 2. Magneto is not stationary, 3. Vector cannot focus his entire force at Mags shields for prolonged period of time, because he has to protect himself from omnidirectional attacks at the same time).
Originally posted by Magnon
There are plenty. We are talking about an attack which is 'weak' enough not to draw blood from Hulk immediately; in this case even the distance between them is very short, something like 20 meters, and the Hulk is even trying to move closer to Vector.Mags would be further (100+ meters) away NOT trying to resist/move towards the force, using shields that have much better track record tanking e.g. Mjolnir strikes than Hulk's face.
So.. would you like me to post a scan of Mags' shields blocking Mjolnir, or multiple simultaneous nukes, or orbital plasma cannon, or similar? Because each of these feats would suffice here. Vector had to struggle to get through the force field on Agamemnon's door, even though he was at point-blank range focusing all his power on it for extended period of time. Mags shields would only have to have a fraction of that strength to protect him in my scenario (1. much larger distance, 2. Magneto is not stationary, 3. Vector cannot focus his entire force at Mags shields for prolonged period of time, because he has to protect himself from omnidirectional attacks at the same time).
Which would be a high end durability ft for Hulk since Hulk was tanking an attack "that was ripping reality apart". Can't get any clearer than that and by the way, based off Hulk durability showings, it's far better than what Magneto shields have endured so you bringing up Mag best doesn't compare to anything. Now again, show me Magneto shields withstanding what I said or submit.
Originally posted by Magnon
The logical explanation is that he is NOT repelling 'anything and everything, and still managing to breathe'. Perhaps he always leaves a direction open for the air to get in, or perhaps he just holds his breath and this limits how long he can use his power continuously. Or maybe he can choose not to repel air. Lots of possibilities.
Originally posted by carver9
Which would be a high end durability ft for Hulk since Hulk was tanking an attack "that was ripping reality apart". Can't get any clearer than that and by the way, based off Hulk durability showings, it's far better than what Magneto shields have endured so you bringing up Mag best doesn't compare to anything. Now again, show me Magneto shields withstanding what I said or submit.
Ehm what? This IS Mags at his best, as per the OP.
The feat by Vector which you showed cannot be quantified because we do not know the properties of that dimension. The only thing we can use from that is how it affected Hulk. Based on that, Magneto could protect himself from Vector's powers.
It would be stupid of Magneto to go stand right next to Vector and try to resist his force and see what happens. But Mags is not stupid. He would keep his distance and allow himself to be like a leaf in a wind, in case the initial distance is not enough.
Magneto wins.
Originally posted by zopzop
Or maybe it's comics and that's just how is power works? Like Superman or Thor lifting huge objects that would collapse under their own weight in real life, yet hold together just fine in comics.
Maybe it is, but this hasn't been established. The comics often try to get the physics right as far as possible, for example the scientific types often use pseudo-real-world concepts in order to defeat their opponents. Magneto is actually a good example of such a character.
Thus, as long as it isn't explicitly stated otherwise, a good starting assumption is that Vector's powers don't allow him to 'magically' breath while he's repelling stuff but instead there's a 'rational' explanation to it. Such as he is just holding his breath while he's repelling things in omnidirectional manner. This limitation is exactly something that Magneto could use against him (as in my scenario), and Mags certainly has used his powers in imaginative ways in the past to exploit his enemies' weaknesses.
Originally posted by golem370
Vector even if Magneto has his shields up can or should be able to be push with force even if it doesn't hurt him.
Yeah, Vector's power is to REPEL things. Not disintegrate or w/e, but to repel. If the thing in question is not fixed in place, and is somewhat durable, the only thing that happens to it is that it gets thrown away. The situation when stuff gets damaged occurs when it is stationary and/or held against the force by some mechanism; for example the Hulk always gets damaged a lot if he tries to resist Vector's power and move towards him.
Magneto, unlike Hulk, does not need to get close or even try to remain stationary against Vector's attack. Therefore he doesn't need anywhere near as much durability to withstand the attack that is required when someone wants to walk towards Vector.
