Qui-Gon Jinn vs Ven Zallow

No, he means when Qui-Gon made a mistake, because of his style, got stabbed, and died, something chilled said wouldn't happen because reasons.

Originally posted by Sinious
He just can't accept the fact that Liam Neeson can lose too.

Which is understandable I guess.

Qui-Gon didn't really make a mistake, Maul just smacked him with his saber hit which gave him the opportunity to stab him after Maul pushed his blade back, I didn't see any mistake on Qui-Gon's part.

Leaving himself wide open is a mistake. Following Maul into a trap was also a mistake. Whenever you leave an opening or give your opponent an advantage, you made a mistake. Seems simple enough to me.

How did Qui-Gon leave himself wide open exactly? Maul hit him right after he pushed his blade, it's not like Qui-Gon left himself open.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
How did Qui-Gon leave himself wide open exactly? Maul hit him right after he pushed his blade, it's not like Qui-Gon left himself open.

................... 😐

That's the literal definition of an opening. When you leave a space to be hit, you left an opening.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
................... 😐

That's the literal definition of an opening. When you leave a space to be hit, you left an opening.

He didn't intentionally do it though.

I guess that's where the wires got crossed, there was an opening yes but it was hardly Qui-Gon's fault because he was obviously stunned from the hit.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Qui-Gon's style is why he was left wide open and stabbed, so it's pretty ironic that you used it as justification as to why he wouldn't be. Especially considering it is the exact same style Zallow uses.

No it isn't. Did you not pay attention?

Zallow uses textbook Ataru without any kind of modifications or refinements. Qui-Gon uses a modified variant of Ataru which cuts down the flashy acrobatics and superfluous movements, is far more energy-efficient and has better defensive techniques.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's like you've never even seen TPM, let alone read the duel with Maul. Of course struggling with and being killed by Maul is comparable to blitzing several Sith.

Like how Zallow struggled with and was killed by Malgus?

And no duh, he blitzed several Sith. That was in a battlefield engagement, the very thing he was optimised for.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Qui-Gon's Good job restating Jensaarai's faulty logic. Please do provide any level of evidence supporting this.

Gee, maybe the fact that you know, the only one-on-one duel he was in ended with him getting killed.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Still no proof that Zallow practices Ataru,

Is that supposed to be funny? Have you actually watched the Deceived trailer? The one where Zallow jumps and flips around all over the place?

And you know, jumping and flipping around is the definition of Ataru.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Except that one time when he made a mistake and got stabbed and died

Have you watched the movie?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Qui-Gon didn't really make a mistake, Maul just smacked him with his saber hit which gave him the opportunity to stab him after Maul pushed his blade back, I didn't see any mistake on Qui-Gon's part.

Precisely. Thank you.

He didn't make any mistake at all. Maul just landed a hit because, surprise, surprise, Qui-Gon is not perfect.

EVERY fighter is going to get hit at some point in their career.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Do you mean after carrying the entire battle by himself? Or after fighting through droids prior to getting to the Theed hangar? Or could you possibly mean after he had Maul on the defensive?

Also true. Thank you.

Gee, maybe the fact that you know, the only one-on-one duel he was in ended with him getting killed.

Sure, because he was facing a vastly superior oopponent.

Is that supposed to be funny? Have you actually watched the Deceived trailer? The one where Zallow jumps and flips around all over the place?

Anakin and Bane can do fancy jumps and flips too. Djem So specialists.

And you know, jumping and flipping around is the definition of Ataru.

Just because Ataru involves heavy acrobatics doesn't mean that any fighter who does flips is performing Ataru sequences. 😬

Have you watched the movie?

Yes, I watched the movie where Qui-Gon was gutted.

EVERY fighter is going to get hit at some point in their career.

👆 Just like Zallow.

Since almost all of us agree that Malgus is a harder foe to fight compared to TPM Maul and Zallow killed 2 sith warriors while fighting him where Qui-Gon failed to defeat Maul even with the aid of his apprentice, I don't see how an argument can be made for Jinn here.

Much more than two Warriors.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
No it isn't. Did you not pay attention?

Zallow uses textbook Ataru without any kind of modifications or refinements. Qui-Gon uses a modified variant of Ataru which cuts down the flashy acrobatics and superfluous movements, is far more energy-efficient and has better defensive techniques.

Like how Zallow struggled with and was killed by Malgus?

And no duh, he blitzed several Sith. That was in a battlefield engagement, the very thing he was optimised for.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Much more than two Warriors.

I meant while dueling Malgus not during the entire battle.

Originally posted by Sinious
Since almost all of us agree that Malgus is a harder foe to fight compared to TPM Maul

Actually, I think TPM Maul has a good chance of victory against the Malgus that Ven Zallow fought tbh.

And you've admitted this in another thread very recently:

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'll still edge it to Malgus over TPM Maul.

Which means you do accept that Deceived Malgus is a more challenging foe regardless of how close the two are.

Malgus became more powerful between the Sacking of Coruscant and the end of Deceived.

Hmm, fair enough. So would you say that Sacking of Coruscant Malgus would lose to TPM Maul or it could go both ways?

Originally posted by Sinious
Hmm, fair enough. So would you say that Sacking of Coruscant Malgus would lose to TPM Maul or it could go both ways?

I don't find either option to be mutually exclusive, but Maul should win more often than not, if that's what you're asking.

It was.

What about the rest of my argument? Jinn failed with the assistance of his apprentice where Zallow failed alone + managed to kill 2 warriors while doing so. Isn't the latter more impressive?

Originally posted by Sinious
Since almost all of us agree that Malgus is a harder foe to fight compared to TPM Maul and Zallow killed 2 sith warriors while fighting him where Qui-Gon failed to defeat Maul even with the aid of his apprentice, I don't see how an argument can be made for Jinn here.

That's because you're relying on ABC logic (this guy beat this guy and this other guy beat this other guy so the first guy is better). Beg your pardon but that is limited, unimaginative and frankly not very smart.

That is why youtube Vs. videos (for the most part at least) are so awesome; because the makers understand that its not just a matter of "who won?" You also have to ask "HOW and WHY did he/she win?" You need to consider how the duellists different skillsets, strengths, weaknesses and tactical approaches match up. An approach that works against one foe may not work against another. Even if that other is overall "weaker" they may be better equipped to defeat him/her.

Watch this (I know it's long but its worth it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5W4GYh6QRE&index=3&list=PLd9UlXo3DM_vfnK9Dtfsq36XGgPEHr_A_

Put simply, Zallow beat those 2 dudes while fighting Malgus because his personal fighting style was designed for that kind of situation. That same approach would not be effective against Qui-Gon because Zallow uses textbook Atraru while Qui-Gon uses a personalised form of Ataru. This means he would easily be able to suss Zallow out and outmaneuver him.

Yeah but if Zallow is a superior combatant, I don't see Jinn being able to do that.