Hmm, really hard to say. Akira placed a few bits of dialogue in the story which seemed to imply that pre-RoSaT SSJ Vegeta had surpassed pre-RoSaT SSJ Goku...
Chapter: 348 (DBZ 154), P5.5
Piccolo: "It seems that Vegeta really has obtained power surpassing Goku now that he’s become a Super Saiyan."
Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P10.2-4, P11.1
#18: "I'm surprised. To think that a flesh-and-blood human could be so good, even if you are an alien. Is this man called 'Son Goku' even stronger?"
Vegeta: "Don't kid yourself. He may have temporarily slipped by me, but now things have returned to normal and I should be on top again."
...But those statements are still pretty ambiguous, really.
However, I personally don't think that even a healthy Goku would have been able to fight on par with #18 at that point in time, like Vegeta did. People tend to forget this, but Vegeta did extremely well against #18 initially--hell, I'd even say he had the slight advantage. The only reason #18 ultimately gained the upper hand is because Vegeta obviously has a finite supply of energy at his disposal, whereas the Androids have unlimited energy stores. In short: he became fatigued. She did not...
Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P12.3-6
Trunks: "Am-amazing! I hadn't realized that father was this strong…! To think that he's able to fight on par with that outrageous android…!"
Piccolo: "Vegeta's going to be killed. [...] Watch... Bit by bit, the android is starting to push him back. It's because his enemy's power never falls at all, while Vegeta's stamina falls the more he moves."
So yeah, I'd probably go with Vegeta here.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaTrunks was also awestruck at how much more powerful those androids were in comparison to the ones from his timeline.
No, Vegeta should beat Goku here pretty solidly. It was implied that SSJ1 Future Trunks was around equal to SSJ1 Goku at that point, and Vegeta was capable of fighting on par with #18, while Trunks broke his sword on his first swing at her.
So yeah, it's entirely possible that Vegeta could beat Goku rather solidly here.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaYep, and Gohan also stated their ki's were the same when they both went SSJ.
Yeah, but they explained in the manga that neither of them were being serious at all, in that fight. It was implied though, that they were mostly even, when being serious.
However, that was also 3 years before they confronted the androids, so it's hard to say how much Goku/Trunks improved over that time with just their normal training on earth. I would assume they were still equalish, though.
Originally posted by Galan007
Trunks was also awestruck at how much more powerful those androids were in comparison to the ones from his timeline.So yeah, it's entirely possible that Vegeta could beat Goku rather solidly here.
Yep, and Gohan also stated their ki's were the same when they both went SSJ.
However, that was also 3 years before they confronted the androids, so it's hard to say how much Goku/Trunks improved over that time with just their normal training on earth. I would assume they were still equalish, though.
Yeah, I forgot Gohan said that. I knew someone said it, but I didn't mention it because I didn't know exactly when/what was said.
Yeah, but Vegeta was the one doing the most training during those three years. Goku had to train Gohan as well. And also, Goku didn't have much of an upper hand on android 19 in the first place, even before his heart disease started acting up. Vegeta rofl-stomped him, even though he was just toying with him the whole time, to see how strong he was.
Oh yeah, given the intensity of Vegeta's training after the Freeza saga(he trained in upwards of 300x gravity non-stop), I have no doubt that he could have increased his base PL beyond Goku's(whose training was mellow by comparison) during that 3 years. And if Vegeta's base PL was greater, his SSJ PL would be greater by proxy.
Goku had been afflicted by the heart disease before ever fighting 19 so not really a fair measuring stick. But yeah it is likely Vegeta is stronger. Unless the heart disease had somehow made his training yield weaker results but that is as baseless as ya get.
It is strange though. Once Goku gets up he continues to be Vegeta's superior in almost every way. He got more out of the ROAST than Vegeta and he spent less time in there.
Originally posted by AuraAngelThat was because of how they trained. Vegeta only trained to increase his raw power, which ultimately hindered his stamina. Conversely, Goku trained to increase his stamina, which enabled him to master SSJ, which gleaned him far more raw power.
He got more out of the ROAST than Vegeta and he spent less time in there.
Originally posted by Galan007
Fact is, anyone not named Goku or Gohan eventually became irrelevant. Vegeta is just one in a number of those causalities, lol.
Eh, at least until Buu arc. Then Vegeta surpasses Gohan in terms of narrative importance. By BoG it is obvious who the real second protag is.
I wish Piccolo got to do more. *sigh*
Originally posted by AuraAngelPost-Buu arc, you mean? Because the Buu arc itself is when Gohan went 'Mystic', and because the most powerful unfused character in the series, by far. The last 2 films have seen him dwindle into insignificance, though. 👇
Eh, at least until Buu arc. Then Vegeta surpasses Gohan in terms of narrative importance. By BoG it is obvious who the real second protag is.I wish Piccolo got to do more. *sigh*
Yeah, Piccolo was so underutilized that it's pathetic.
Originally posted by Galan007
Post-Buu arc, you mean? Because the Buu arc itself is when Gohan went 'Mystic', and because the most powerful unfused character in the series, by far. The last 2 films have seen him dwindle into insignificance, though. 👇Yeah, Piccolo was so underutilized that it's pathetic.
Nah. Gohan is stronger but for all the build up his character ultimately doesn't do anything noteworthy when going Mystic. Vegeta was weaker but at the same time did way more. There is a narrative reason why Gohan doesn't succeed against Buu but hey.
It makes sense. When he fuses with Kami his character arc is pretty complete. Just wish he could have stayed up there in strength so that the strongest guys wouldn't be all Saiyans.