Originally posted by FreshestSlice
But he is though. Dooku may edge out in the Force, but the Wrath superiority in sabers and tanking more than makes up for that.
Superiority in sabers?
"Hm." Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "Best of all, Dooku would be!" His eyes found the other Jedi, one by one: and one by one, they looked away. "Our great student!" Yoda's ears flexed, then drooped. "Our great failure.""He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder."
Now granted I don't think Dooku is equally matched to Yoda but here are some sources for you:
"The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched."Source: Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force
The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other.Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Count Dooku and Master Yoda engaging in a titanic struggle of Force powers on Geonosis.Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
He's confirmed to be above Maul in force power.
"His power isn’t on Vader’s level, true, or even on Count Dooku’s level — but that never stops him. He stands alongside the Sith Lords only by sheer force of will."
Further Accolades:
Dooku was said to be one of the Order's finest lightsaber masters, and he had earned a reputation as a skilled diplomat, as well.Source: Darth Plagueis
"The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light."
"Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective."
Not to mention defeating more duos and trios than perhaps any other duelist in the Mythos. These defeats include, Ventress who has defeated celebrated swordsmen, Grievous one of the greatest Jedi hunters of all time, and Sora Bulq one of the greatest swordmasters of all time. Darth Tyranus is firmly above Wrath II.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Superiority in sabers?Now granted I don't think Dooku is equally matched to Yoda but here are some sources for you:
Further Accolades:
Originally posted by Lord Stark
You pretty much think Dark Council is synonymous with Dooku level so this isn't surprising.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The Wrath isn't on the Dark Council though....... 😕
He beat someone on the Dark Council. Which I guess for you means above Dooku level.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What does you posting a bunch of Force accolades have to do with saber skill? And as much as I love accolades, I don't particularly like to deal with them without feats to match. And considering the Wrath has saber-wankage all over TOR from the offset, I don't particularly see the relevance of accolades either.
Perhaps I should specify.
"The blinding scarlet blur of Dooku's lightsaber split the air, slashing a burning line along Yoda's side before chopping his desk in half."- Dooku landing a hit on Yoda
"Before their pieces could even hit the floor Dooku was in motion, landing a spinning side-stamp that folded Skywalker in half."
Dooku kicks Skywalker before pieces of battledroids can even hit the ground.
"Then their blades clashed together in a lace of fire, green and red: but the green burned hotter. Slowly, slowly, Dooku gave way: and in the dark, drunken Vjun air, Yoda was terrible to behold."
Tyranus on a nexus is able to hold back Yoda's 'terrible' offensive.
"He had toed the Jedi line; become the Temple's most agile swordmaster and instructor."
Stated to be the most agile swordmaster and instructor.
"Dooku was said to be one of the Order's finest lightsaber masters, and he had earned a reputation as a skilled diplomat, as well."
"His slightly curved lightsaber hilt, too, might have been a prop, though he was known to be one of the Order's most skilled duelists."
Tyranus is considered to be an equal/ superior to Yoda and Mace Windu.
"The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light."
"Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective."
Dooku's doppleganger defeats TCWs Kenobi.
"Where is Master Kenobi?"
"Wounded in the fight against Dooku. The Force will mend his wounds in time."
Source: The New Droid Army
Tyranus also defeats Ventress as well as two of the most skilled nightsisters while blinded and drugged. He defeats Skywalker time and time again in spite of him being the finest Djem So master he's scene as well as arguably being the most powerful Jedi in history at the time (Source: ROTS novel).
Tyranus defeated Sora Bulq as well who is
This is a factually true statement that I can't disagree with.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
He beat someone on the Dark Council. Which I guess for you means above Dooku level.
😕
I said he's on Dooku's level, not above it. I didn't say he'd beat him. You can be comparable without needing to be superior.
Furthermore, Ekkage and Baras weren't ordinary DC members and Sel-Makor!Voice isn't a standard Council member either. So I think you're assuming some things about me which simply aren't true.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Baras is superior to everyone on this list sans Anakin.
While this is true, I don't think Baras is more powerful than two of these individuals at once. Dooku casually knocks out Bulq even though he's "one of the greatest lightsaber instructors the Order has ever known". Baras has never done something like this.
Eh, I know it's not a popular opinion, but I stand by it. I don't see Dooku as the almighty god who can go toe-to-toe with Yoda like some people do here.
Most people agree that a serious Yoda (as he was against Sidious) would defeat Dooku soundly. No one thinks they are equals. But his performance against Yoda is still admirable when you consider quotes like this.
"And he had given a demonstration. Three members of the council—Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Billaba, excellent fighters all—had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him."
Originally posted by Nephthys
😕I said he's [b]on
Dooku's level, not above it. I didn't say he'd beat him. You can be comparable without needing to be superior.Furthermore, Ekkage and Baras weren't ordinary DC members and Sel-Makor!Voice isn't a standard Council member either. So I think you're assuming some things about me which simply aren't true. [/B]
He is not Baras would be cut down in 15-20 seconds by Yoda.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Legends Depa who can match Mace Windu's speed and land blows on him was unable to lay a finger on unarmed Yoda with Plo Koon AND Saesee Tiin backing her up and also attacking.
What does Baras have that suggests he's faster than Depa, let alone Depa, Tiin, and Koon combined? Throw in Yoda's vastly superior TK and...yeah Yoda wrecks Baras with the ease that Dooku wrecked Ventress.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
He is not Baras would be cut down in 15-20 seconds by Yoda.
You seem a little emotional. But I have to insist that I'm telling the truth, Baras definitely is not a standard Dark Council member. He was considered almost invincible and none on the council dared oppose him directly. A standard Dark Council member is clearly beneath him.
Hey Ant, I notice that you could stand to mention Sel-Makor's claim of giving power to Baras in your Respect thread. I think it's an important aspect of the Wraths victory. Of course, if you're worried its unsubstantiated you could do some digging for proof that I've been too lazy to do myself. I am pretty sure no other Sith visited Voss decades before the game though.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You seem a little emotional. But I have to insist that I'm telling the truth, Baras definitely is not a standard Dark Council member. He was considered almost invincible and none on the council dared oppose him directly. A standard Dark Council member is clearly beneath him.Hey Ant, I notice that you could stand to mention Sel-Makor's claim of giving power to Baras in your Respect thread. I think it's an important aspect of the Wraths victory. Of course, if you're worried its unsubstantiated you could do some digging for proof that I've been too lazy to do myself. I am pretty sure no other Sith visited Voss decades before the game though.
Naturally, Yoda would need far longer for full powered Baras, he was likely the most powerful member of the Dark Council. I was talking about the Baras the Wrath fought mind you.