Marka Ragnos vs. Darth Bane DoE

What book? He says Tavion couldn't sustain Ragnos's corruption. In fact, he said Tavion was too weak for the Scepter in general.

He was also five thousand years out of practice on a weak nexus and in an insufficient body. In his prime he was canonically leagues ahead of the Exile as of Korriban and Kreia, and his skill was renowned enough to be the foundation of the fighting style of Sith Juggernauts in Vitiate's Empire for over a millennium. I'd say that at least beats Kas'im, meaning he would at least offer a challenge to Bane.

I'd say enchanting the Scepter and seemingly being significantly more powerful than Ludo Kressh (who could shatter giant stone statues just by clenching his fist) is good enough to be "in Bane's level". His mere emergence as a Force Ghost seemed to send ripples through the Force - not directly, perhaps, but still, a number of sources suggest Ragnos's power and I'd say it's easily of Bane's class.

The Jaden Korr book? Not being able to sustain the corruption doesn't mean he was weakened. Nox couldn't sustain the ghosts, Sidious' clone bodies couldn't sustain his power, Nihilus' body couldn't sustain his power either. None were weakened that much.

Meaning he was still on a nexus and amped. Sith spirits spend a lot of time sleeping, so like Exar Kun it's possible that Ragnos wasn't that out of practice. He is very skilled yeah, but clearly not on Bane's level of total mastery.

I'd definitely disagree, destroying statues doesn't amount to destroying the Lehon temple at all. I'm not saying Ragnos is weak or that Bane would easily beat him, but Bane definitely would.

I could easily argue that he blitzes tbh, but I won't.

1. Crosscurrent or Riptide? Doesn't matter - he says it in the game.

2. You mean Palpatine's sabotaged bodies? He was definitely weakened, lol. Nox sustained the spirits eventually - Nihilus cast out his body and projected his identity and consciousness into his mask and armor. I'd say that if Tavion's body couldn't even withstand the mere presence of Ragnos being within her - then she isn't going to be a particularly effective conduit for his using the Force.

3. Actually, no. Sith spirits require a dark side nexus to manifest at all, meaning they won't be amped. And it seems that the potency of the nexus is relevant to the power level of the spirit at that time - in other words, Korriban's declining nexus at that point probably wasn't enough to sustain Ragnos's full power.

4. Going by that line of thought, a number of Sith spirits also complain about being weaker than they were in life - which would apply to Ragnos as well in that case.

5. Bane called down the Temple while gathering energies during Kas'im's speech on an immensely powerful focus of Force energy. He has other less circumstantial feats to be using.

That, and the mere shade of Ragnos (again, he probably wasn't at full power) was so much above Kressh and Sadow (who at the time was Kressh's rival) that the two of them bowed before him, even on the nexus (again, Ragnos uses the nexus to manifest, so he wouldn't be amped like Sadow and Kressh). That's a pretty substantial difference.

6. He didn't blitz Hetton, so I doubt he'd blitz Ragnos.

Ragnos.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Crosscurrent or Riptide? Doesn't matter - he says it in the game.

2. You mean Palpatine's sabotaged bodies? He was definitely weakened, lol. Nox sustained the spirits eventually - Nihilus cast out his body and projected his identity and consciousness into his mask and armor. I'd say that if Tavion's body couldn't even withstand the mere presence of Ragnos being within her - then she isn't going to be a particularly effective conduit for his using the Force.

3. Actually, no. Sith spirits require a dark side nexus to manifest at all, meaning they won't be amped. And it seems that the potency of the nexus is relevant to the power level of the spirit at that time - in other words, Korriban's declining nexus at that point probably wasn't enough to sustain Ragnos's full power.

4. Going by that line of thought, a number of Sith spirits also complain about being weaker than they were in life - which would apply to Ragnos as well in that case.

5. Bane called down the Temple while gathering energies during Kas'im's speech on an immensely powerful focus of Force energy. He has other less circumstantial feats to be using.

That, and the mere shade of Ragnos (again, he probably wasn't at full power) was so much above Kressh and Sadow (who at the time was Kressh's rival) that the two of them bowed before him, even on the nexus (again, Ragnos uses the nexus to manifest, so he wouldn't be amped like Sadow and Kressh). That's a pretty substantial difference.

6. He didn't blitz Hetton, so I doubt he'd blitz Ragnos.

2. Uh, I don't think he was? You think DE Sidious was weakened? He was only weakened in those bodies after he started getting seriously wrinkly and ****ed up. But if you disagree I'm cool with that. Nox wasn't weakened by spirits though, she was still able to fight her way through dozens of opponents without issue. And I know that Nihilus did that. He wasn't debilitated by his body's corruption though. Tavion couldn't sustain his power, that doesn't mean he couldn't still wield his full power through her. The whole reason she was destroyed by his power was because he was doing that, just like in the examples I mentioned above.

3. He's possessing Tavion, so he doesn't need the nexus anymore. Plus he'd just been fed a metric ton of Force power through his staff. So he'd be amped through her. And I don't know what you're talking about with regards to Korriban so either post something from the game to indicate your point or don't.

4. Well it sure is lucky that Ragnos had just fed on the dark energies of several planets nexuses then, huh?

5. Kressh was on Korriban at the height of it's powers when he destroyed that statue. I'd be careful with throwing around the nexus defense all the time. Regardless, Bane's feat is a hundred times as impressive. Gathering energies isn't that big a deal bro, and Bane grew over 20 more years after that point.

Not a feat, it proves nothing other than that people respect him.

6. Bane slowly walked up to Hetton and casually cut his arm off before killing him. Lowball harder please. 😬

Also Hetton has better speed feats than Ragnos, 😉

7. Even after getting fed from his staff, Ragnos' spirit couldn't kill Jaden. You can talk about Tavion being weak all you want but Ragnos' spirit isn't affected by that and he evidently considered Tavion possession more of a chance to kill Jaden than just attacking him in spirit form. Which we know can be done and is very effective.

1. Nihilus's case involves his own body, not him using somebody else's. The same goes for Nox - they're not valid comparisons in the slightest. Tavion not being able to sustain his power in the slightest means he can't use it to its full potential. So he'd be at a fraction of his actual power.

2. I mean the original emergence of the spirit - ie. when it was first resurrected.

3. That was used to "resurrect him", not amp him.

4. IIRC, Kressh was on Rhelg, not Korriban, when he did that.

5. Gathering energies is certainly a big deal, and while Bane increased in power, it's not by enough to make up for that difference, or else he would've displayed such titanic power in DoE. He didn't.

6. I meant the Lightning part. Hetton was crippled by fear by the time you mentioned Bane walking up to him and cutting him down. It was a joke, though - but the point is that he hasn't blitzed less.

As for the speed feats, Ragnos has displayed a fair amount of physical amplification (he was renowned for his immense strength) so I'd say the whole Force Speed being related to your power argument does work here.

7. Ragnos's spirit was certainly weakened, which is more or less what Jaden said. Jaden said Tavion was too weak to properly use the Scepter in the first place. As I said, there were plenty of negative circumstances on Ragnos's side.

1. Both cases involve the drawing on more power than their body can sustain through unnatural means. I don't see why they don't apply. And you're completely speculating about Ragnos being weakened. You can't prove it and theres nothing that suggests it in the game or out of it. Heck, in the Dark Temple some of the most powerful Sith were possessing freaking slaves (non-force sensitives) and they could still wield their power.

2. Fair enough. I meant when he fought Jaden. He'd be amped right? And Jaden debilitated?

3. It's a massive store of energy. You really think Ragnos would be weaker after consuming several planets worth of power? The whole point of "resurrecting" him was to give him a shitton of energy.

4. I thought he blew up the statue after he'd fought Sadow in the Tomb of the Dark Lords.

5. 😬 You know what I meant. It didn't make him a hundred times as powerful. Ludpo Kressh's feat isn't in the same solar system. Bane was stated to wield more power than the Sorceress who devastated Ambria in DoE. Regardless, absence of proof is not proof of absence. Just because he didn't perform such feats doesn't suggest he could not.

6. Why would you bring up the lightning part? It's not like Bane's speed has anything to do with how fast his lightning is.

The point is that Ragnos has demonstrated nothing on Bane's level of speed. And I'd disagree with you. That Ragnos' strength was regarded as legendary but his speed was not indicates that he was notable with the former.

7. That doesn't mean anything to do with Ragnos. He'd just ate several nexuses (nexii?), he wouldn't be weakened in terms of his power thats ridiculous.

Hey, if Neph is willing to argue Bane>>>Jaden>Ragnos>Sadow>>>Exile/Traya, that's his prerogative. 👆

Traya > Ragnos tbh.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Hey, if Neph is willing to argue ignore Bane>>>Jaden>Ragnos>Sadow>>>Exile/Traya quotes from Traya that are confirmed authentic, that's his prerogative. 👆

If Traya loses to Ragnos it'll be because she jizzes in her robes at the sight of him and faints in fangirl lust.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Where does Jaden say that, in his book?

Ragnos still lacked the skill to defeat Jaden in a duel and he had his staff which is a big advantage.

Ragnos also has no feats or showings that put him on Banes level.

I thought we factor in unsubstantiated hype... Or is that only in the case of Tulak Hord? mmm

The implication that the ancients are far superior to Traya/Exile is authentic.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I thought we factor in unsubstantiated hype... Or is that only in the case of Tulak Hord? mmm

Traya never personally met, fought and fought beside Ragnos. Khem did with Hord.

And according to Avellone, that was irrelevant. 👆

Originally posted by Nephthys
Traya never personally met, fought and fought beside Ragnos. Khem did with Hord.

She also has never personally met, fought, and fought beside every Force user in the galaxy yet when she says there's no defense against her Force drain... You believe her without question.

So do you just think the otherwise omniscient Traya neglected to do her homework here or is it just that you have an agenda that precludes the possibility of Ragnos beating Bane's ass here?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
She also has never personally met, fought, and fought beside every Force user in the galaxy yet when she says there's no defense against her Force drain... You believe her without question.

So do you just think the otherwise omniscient Traya neglected to do her homework here or is it just that you have an agenda that precludes the possibility of Ragnos beating Bane's ass here?

I don't believe her without question. I've stated that it's possible for there to exist a defense but no-one has ever proven or indicated one that's commonly known enough to be relevant to these threads. There's no evidence of a defense, so the point is moot.

Also that's something completely different and doesn't have anything to do with what I said. She doesn't need to have fought anyone to know of Force techniques, she's sitting on a mountain of darkside lore. If anyone would know of a defense she has the best means to acquire such knowledge.

What if I produce statements from you where you categorically denied the existence of a defense based on her remarks?

And that mountain of lore wouldn't have anything to do with Ragnos and how beastly he is? Seems like you're willfully disregarding blanket statements while blindly accepting others tbh.

You do that. Be sure to link to the threads as well. I'd also like a drop of blood to make it official.

Why would it? And making comparisons based on second hand sources is notoriously tricky even before bias.

Traya had advanced dementia. She should not be trusted.