Originally posted by Sinious
That version of Vitiate was still powerful enough to collapse a huge portion of Dark Temple and HoT managed to defeat him.SoR Revan can definitely replicate what HoT did but the team is too much for him.
1. Right, while he was on the nexus. Without it, he'd be a lot weaker. He's not going to do much here.
2. HoT can challenge Revan, but he'd ultimately lose every time. This weakened version of Vitiate won't be tipping the scales.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Right, while he was on the nexus. Without it, he'd be a lot weaker. He's not going to do much here.2. HoT can challenge Revan, but he'd ultimately lose every time. This weakened version of Vitiate won't be tipping the scales.
1. Vitiate was so exhausted he could barely stand at that point, was clutching his side and thats before the Hero almost cut him in half. Then he collapsed the temple. Unless this is the version of Vitiate after losing a massive battle to the Hero the nexus isn't really relevant. Vitiate going into that fight could obviously accomplish that feat rather easily even without it.
2. That's dumb. Vitiate can always tip the scales. He's the goddamn Emperor. And the HoT is stronger than he was when he fought Vitiate.
Originally posted by Nephthys
1. Vitiate was so exhausted he could barely stand at that point, was clutching his side and thats [b]before the Hero almost cut him in half. Then he collapsed the temple. Unless this is the version of Vitiate after losing a massive battle to the Hero the nexus isn't really relevant. Vitiate going into that fight could obviously accomplish that feat rather easily even without it.2. That's dumb. Vitiate can always tip the scales. He's the goddamn Emperor. [/B]
1. I did use to believe that, but in the DS option, you outright kill the Emperor (ie. he becomes only a fleeing essence) and he still collapses the temple, so I honestly wonder if the whole mortal injury thing actually played a part.
2. Not in this state. Unless he can collapse the temple under those conditions, in which case I agree he would.
1. Scourge says that Vitiate isn't dead yet actually. "I can sense him fading, but not gone!" Vitiate is a bamf to still be alive through that tbh.
2. He should still be capable of putting Revan off his game enough for the Hero to beat him, through his myriad of force powers and sorcery. And bare in mind that this Revan isn't as powerful as the one in the expansion, since he was on a powerful nexus too and had the temples.
I meant when the Temple collapses, IIRC Vitiate's essence can be seen leaving. Otherwise, it is an impressive feat and the team could win.
You're right about the pillars and what not, but Ant said something about Revan being hindered by the nexus. I have no idea what I believe at the moment, although he probably did amp himself, to be honest.
I can't see it. 4.05. But wouldn't him being dead make it kind of easier since he's not in horrible pain and having to deal with his body being broken?
You probably should buy into what Ant says imo. He's not the most objective of dudes. But he was pretty darn darksidey imo.
Note: This is too long for me to worry about typos, so suck it up.
People who lack education of Star Wars lore like to assume that Resurrected Revan is Revan's dark self and Spirit Revan is Revan's light self, but that is bluntly wrong. Spirit Revan and the Playable Character specifically tell you what they actually are. Resurrected Revan embodies Revan's emotional. His emotional attachments that drove him to the Mandalorian Wars and beyond. His emotional attachments that gave him the strength to overcome Darth Malak and redeem Bastila Shan. His emotional attachments to go out to Unknown Space to confront a threat greater than himself to save his family. And now finally, his emotional attachments to get revenge on his jailer. In the contrary, Spirit Revan embodies Revan's wisdom (his common sense, his logic, his good judgment), and in return also has no emotional attachments. It should also be noted that Resurrected Revan holds the power of Revan Reborn (most of it, but not all), but we will get to that later. For now, let us focus on the central point of wisdom and logic vs emotion and attachment.
"And without him, you died. He needs your wisdom, but you need his strength. His focus."
--The Emperor's Wrath (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
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As I said above, Spirit Revan released his emotional attachments to Bastila Shan, the Republic, the Emperor, etc. He no longer possesses that passion that Revan was so infamous for. Because of this, he was able to become pure and one with the Force. His level of pureness reached such a state he could affect the mortal realm. Incredible.
"When the Emperor's followers struck me down... I learned to release my attachments."
--Spirit Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
"My attachments have always driven me too far, and I have always refused to see it."
--Spirit Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
---
But you see, this emotional attachment Revan possessed consumed fully one-half of Revan. Before it was in balance, perfectly distrusted. The balance has drastically changed to complete and total passion. The quote above gives an excellent description. Revan's 'darkness' isn't actually darkness, but his obsession and eagerness to kill Vitiate and save the galaxy. Is that really a dark side motive? To save the galaxy? Of course not, and this only intensified with the circumstances I highlighted above. But note that "obsession," "arrogance," and "passion" does not translate to a dark side Force wielder. In fact, Spirit Revan also says the Revan we saw on the Foundry, who was an incarnation of Revan Reborn, was driven by rage. Despite this, we saw this Foundry Revan in "total balance" during the first half of the fight, and was even calmly meditating beforehand.
"His obsession, his arrogance, this angry crusade--it's all blinded him to the truth."
--Spirit Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
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In fact, Resurrected Revan is not a dark side Force user. He possess the same abilities and traits that Revan Reborn possessed. Is this supported? Completely. In the final boss fight with Revan, when Revan does his Force Destruction feat, he suspends his enemies in not dark side energy, but rather dark AND light side energies. I took a screenshot below for proof. We see right there Revan balancing out the light and darkness throughout the battlefield.
http://postimg.org/gallery/ehzq9d6w/08267ebb/
--Star Wars: The Old Republic
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Next, I would like to point out that Satele Shan casts a Force Barrier during the beginning of the fight. The description of the barrier basically directly states she blocked out the effects of the dark side nexus. I provided the quote below. Additionally, her Battle Meditation should theoretically also be boosting herself. Add this onto the fact that Bastila Shan, her ancestor, used Battle Meditation in the heart of the Star Forge without any noticeable effects. In fact, she heavily implied she found more peace during Battle Meditation as a Jedi than as a Sith. It appears a nexus does not effect Battle Meditation that much, if even at all.
"Force Barrier: Immune to all damage, control, and negative effects."
--Star Wars: The Old Republic
"I was able to use my Battle Meditation to allow the Republic to break through the Sith fleet. The capital ships are in bombardment range!"
--Bastila Shan (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)
---
Next, let us look at Spirit Revan. People say he is Revan Redeemed-the champion of the light side. Lies! Spirit Revan directly praises the power of Darth Nox and the Emperor's Wrath, yet doesn't do the same for the Hero of Tython or Barsen'thor. He even says that using the dark side has "served them well." That is certainly not a light side thing to say in any way, shape, or form!
"Dark Lord. Even I look in awe at your accelerated rise to power."
--Spirit Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
"You did not get where you are today through kindness or moderation. It has served you well."
--Spirit Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
---
When sensing the presence of Spirit Revan, Satele Shan notes it is not the presence of a Jedi. Fascinating.
"You sense it too. Not the ancient Sith, or the Emperor. Not Revan. Another presence, different from the rest. But, in answer to your question, no: the presence isn't exactly that of a Jedi, either."
--Satele Shan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
---
We have established many things so far, let's recap. Spirit Revan possess Revan's wisdom, not his 'light' self, as demonstrated by praising dark side Force users, aiding the Coalition Strike Team by unleashing "Dark Side Shrouds" to counter Revan's "Light Destruction," and being specifically said by Satele Shan to not be a Jedi. Likewise, we also know Resurrected Revan possess Revan's emotion and power. What does power mean? His strength. How much? Far more than Spirit Revan, yet still noticeably inferior to Revan Reborn. This is according to the Emperor's Wrath, someone who fought Revan first-hand on the Foundry. Spirit Revan agrees with his assessment.
"Now that your power has subsided, I may finally confront you."
--Spirit Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
"...you were strongest when you were together."
--Spirit Revan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
---
Now that we know the Revan that the Coalition Stike Force fought was not Darth Revan, but rather a passion-driven Revan Reborn, let us understand how Revan works. We saw first-hand during that fight that Revan used both the light and dark side of the Force to defend against Marr, Shan, Wrath, etc. Revan canonically balances these two powers in unison with one another: a perfect 50% light energy and 50% dark energy. We learned that all the way back from the Revan novel. Revan doing this allows his attacks to produce more raw power than if he simply did light or darkness, hence why he does it. But what does it mean? Obviously, Revan calling upon the dark side energies will be easy given the environment. But the light energy? He has to expend a great deal of energy to balance out and find that pure, non-corrupted energy. You are in awe over how dark the nexus is. Okay, but then you need to recognize Revan will lose even more energy trying to balance off the corrupted energy with normal energy to achieve his pure bursts of power we seen him display. Even though the argument can be made it is game mechanics, the authorial intent is there. When Revan unleashes his orbs, they aren't red or purple like dark side Force users do. They aren't blue either like Jedi do. They are perfectly whitish grey. Total balance.
"He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength."
--Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
"Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form. There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send Revan staggering. The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan’s mind, was sent flying backward. He landed in a heap on the floor and Revan raced toward him."
--Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
"Revan was special because he learned to balance and call on both the light and dark sides of the Force."
--Drew Karpyshyn (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan Author)
Continued Below.
Continued Above.
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Let us say Revan has 30,000 midichlorians. It works in the sense that half of them bring in corrupted energies (dark side), and half of them bring in non-corrupted (light side). So, lets divide that by half and we got 15,000 midichlorians bringing in dark energy, and 15,000 midichlorians bringing in light energy. Let's say also the amp on Yavin IV featured a 120% concentration of dark side energies, which is more than usual. Those 15,000 midichlorians will be working as if Revan has 18,000 midichlorians. The other 15,000 midichlorians than have to dig in the apparently immensely concentrated dark side energies of Yavin IV to balance out the corrupted energies. Obviously the dark side energies are going to flow in faster, so Revan has to waste a lot of his 18,000 midichlorians in order to balance it out with the light side energy. Heck, if this planet is truly as dark as you guys say it is, Revan will have a time in hell trying to find these non-corrupted energies. In the end, he might be functioning with the total capacity of 25,000 midichlorians (with him scavenging the light side destructive output of 12,500 midichlorians, and the other dark half obviously has to balance that out), which is not even his normal self of 30,000 midichlorians. So ultimately, the bigger "amp" Revan gets, the more energy he has to use to balance it out. In a world totally saturated by dark side energies, Revan might not be even able to function at half his capacity. In fact, isn't there a quote that says Yavin IV is totally saturated in the dark side, or am I mistaken? Because if so, Revan might be far more powerful than we ever imagined.
NOTE: This is merely one of my two "Revan was hindered" arguments. The second is pretty direct, to the point, and obvious.
Yeah, sorry about that. I'm trying to upload the set of images to postimage.org atm. For some reason imgur doesn't support .bmp images anymore.
EDIT: http://postimg.org/gallery/ehzq9d6w/08267ebb/.