Count Dooku vs Darth Marr and Lana Beniko

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Ravage also states that he could have murdered Malgus. His opinion means nothing he's supremely arrogant.

Where is this stated?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Vowrawn states on Corellia that most of the Council didn't buy Baras' claim. He did, and if he didn't have the power to back it the Council would have just said 'you are full of shit, we're going to kill you'.

The "power" comes in the form of The Entity. Which isn't power relevant to combat so much as it is farsight.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I think you missed my point there. My point is him tanking Lachris's lightning is akin to Maul tanking that Nightsisters. Marr has no impressive lightning feats.

Which is what I said. And it should be implied that Marr's lightning is infinitely superior to Lachris's.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not really dude. Marr is one of the most senior members of the Council, its only natural he'd command such respect. I mean look at Ravage who's probably the most unruly Councilor. Even he stopped his ranting when the Wrath was supported by a Dark Councilor with much experience like Vowrawn.

Look I think that Marr was pretty close to Maul in his prime. But that's not enough to defeat Dooku, even with Lana as support (Lana is fodder).

You're right, Marr is the most senior member of the Dark Council. How did Marr retain his position for so long? How did he command such respect? Politics? Manipulations? He hated both. It's pretty much fact that he gained and continued holding on to his position due to his military efforts, in which he'd routed armies and conquered worlds, hence why his abilities are, "second to none." Furthermore, Ravage wasn't silenced until Baras was.

The problem here is that no one said that Marr/Beniko would defeat Dooku. Personally I think they have a legitimate shot. I'm arguing the notion that Dooku would stomp Marr/Beniko, which is surprising coming from you, considering how high I thought you held Marr.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
"I did not think I would live to see Thanaton overthrown..." That implies to me that he was certainly a rival, and Marr certainly thought he'd outlive him.

Marr says he's a better Sith than Ravage gives him credit for. Pretty obvious that seeing him dethroned was not something he wanted.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Where is this stated?

YouTube video

He does say we, but the point that Ravage is arrogant still stands. I doubt he's stronger than Thanaton.

The "power" comes in the form of The Entity. Which isn't power relevant to combat so much as it is farsight.

I highly doubt that vision alone made the most powerful Darths in the galaxy bend the knee. They respect the Emperor due to his power not his foresight.

Also

YouTube video

"If Baras true, and I false he should be able to defeat me himself."

And the Councilors agree. Mosts of the Darths knew he was false and yet none challenged him? Why? Because they knew they could not stand against his power. Do you really think that these Councilors wouldn't just strike Baras down if he was Vowrawn-tier combat wise?

Which is what I said. And it should be implied that Marr's lightning is infinitely superior to Lachris's.

More powerful? Sure.

You're right, Marr is the most senior member of the Dark Council. How did Marr retain his position for so long? How did he command such respect? Politics? Manipulations? He hated both. It's pretty much fact that he gained and continued holding on to his position due to his military efforts, in which he'd routed armies and conquered worlds, hence why his abilities are, "second to none." Furthermore, Ravage wasn't silenced until Baras was.

Vowrawn might actually edge him out age wise. Just because Marr despises the game doesn't mean he isn't a skilled player.

Also I direct you to the video above at 3:00

"The challenger is also supported by Darth Vowrawn, one of our own. I have no doubts about you Baras but swat this gnat quickly so we can continue our business."

Marr simply thinks that there's been too much infighting (you know with Thanaton, Baras, Vengean, and sort of Arho all being killed due to Sith actions). If he wasn't a master of the game, he'd be like Malgus. You can't bludgeon your way to the Council, even Malgus knew that in the end.

The problem here is that no one said that Marr/Beniko would defeat Dooku. Personally I think they have a legitimate shot. I'm arguing the notion that Dooku would stomp Marr/Beniko, which is surprising coming from you, considering how high I thought you held Marr. [/B]

1. Mmmm I didn't read that they were all in their primes mind you.
2. I think Beniko is pretty much fodder in this fight.
3. As I said prime Marr is probably Maul level (probs a bit below), which is still a tier below Dooku. So yeah, they do lose, every time.

Lana Beniko is said to be very powerful in her own right, Darth Marr was very impressed with her and the fact she continuously survives campaigns agsinst Vitiate and Revan implied great strength all on it's own.

Surely Lana's ability to block Vitiate's mind controlling powers when Sixth Line Jedi Masters and Commanders couldn't accomplish the same is a great showing.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lana Beniko is said to be very powerful in her own right, Darth Marr was very impressed with her and the fact she continuously survives campaigns agsinst Vitiate and Revan implied great strength all on it's own.

Surely Lana's ability to block Vitiate's mind controlling powers when Sixth Line Jedi Masters and Commanders couldn't accomplish the same is a great showing.

That's the thing though. Powerful in her own right isn't enough to go up against Dooku who's humiliated some of the most skilled duelists in the Jedi Order's history. If anything she could be a hinderance.

Does she have any skill feats to suggest she doesn't get outright gutted by Tyranus in a duel?

Dooku can probably dispose of Lana as easily as he did to Tiplee. Marr vs Dooku would be quite the battle, but Dooku would prevail.

Yet Revan is more powerful and Vitiate far more so by orders of magnitude, If she can do relatively well against them I see no reason to believe Dooku fodderizes her when they couldn't.

Revan couldn't because he was also facing a shit ton of other powerful opponents - all of which were amplified "greatly" by Satele Shan's Battle Meditation.
And Vitiate did utterly fodderize her. He dismissed her in a couple seconds. Lana is probably clocking around Tiplee who, while great, was ultimately no match for Dooku.

I will give you the Revan fight however against Vitiate she resists his direct mental attacks when the entirety of the Sixth Line couldn't.

Sure, because he wasn't focusing on her. His TP was spread out across the entire planet.

He wasn't solely focusing on any one individual, yet all the sixth line was still subjugated to The Emperor's will, so Lana resisting is still very impressive. 👆

No one is denying Lana isn't impressive. But it takes more than impressive to hold a candle against Tyranus.

Being impressive against the second strongest Sith in the mythos is definitely worthy of a candle against Dooku. She showed immense Force prowess and willpower in being able to do so where everyone but the protags couldn't.

She isn't Dooku tier, but she doesn't have to be, she only needs to be adequate support for Darth Marr.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He wasn't solely focusing on any one individual, yet all the sixth line was still subjugated to The Emperor's will, so Lana resisting is still very impressive. 👆

Lana states she is fighting Vitiate's mind control, doesn't get much more clear than that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Emperor's intentions were the Sixth Line, IIRC.

True, but Lana actively suppressing the Emperor from her mind implies that The Emperor was indeed trying to dominate her will ala the Sixth Line.

Sure, he was trying to dominate everyone on the planet. That doesn't mean he used equal effort for everyone. The Sixth Line was his primary target iirc, not Lana.

That's a fair stance, though is there any conclusive evidence either way?