Turbans in the military

Originally posted by Surtur
But why should a concession be made in this case? Especially when there might be non muslims who want to grow a beard or facial hair, but they can't.

Why is having a beard that important to these people? Plus, if they want to join the army they should be willing to follow the rules everyone else follows. They aren't special, but apparently they ARE special.

When I was in, there was a strict policy of if you were from another country and spoke another language, you were not allowed to speak that language while on duty. You are pretty sharp to know why that was the case, I am sure.

Now it seems its a shit show and people can do whatever they want now.

IMO, if Muslims are allowed to grow beards, all soldiers should be allowed to. Granting special privilege to Muslims, especially in the military and at this time where the main combatants of the military claim to be Muslims, not only seems to be begging to incite further resentment between Islam and America, but also allows physical markers for Muslims in the military to be targeted for discrimination. Well intentioned, but ultimately stupid.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
When I was in, there was a strict policy of if you were from another country and spoke another language, you were not allowed to speak that language while on duty. You are pretty sharp to know why that was the case, I am sure.

Now it seems its a shit show and people can do whatever they want now.

Since you were in, do you think this move will piss off the non-muslim soldiers who can't grow facial hair?

Originally posted by Lestov16
IMO, if Muslims are allowed to grow beards, all soldiers should be allowed to. Granting special privilege to Muslims, especially in the military and at this time where the main combatants of the military claim to be Muslims, not only seems to be begging to incite further resentment between Islam and America, but also allows physical markers for Muslims in the military to be targeted for discrimination. Well intentioned, but ultimately stupid.

See this is what our country does. We go overboard. We've done it before. 9/11 happens, go completely batshit with security. Now we currently have all this religious sensitivity, so the military does this.

Also the point of making them targets also makes them look stupid. These people will absolutely be singled out by enemy "muslims" who will see them being in the US army as a huge betrayal. Even beyond that, enemies tend to target people that stand out. I don't see this as a good sign. It is one thing to concede to something benign, but this can legitimately increase their chances of being killed.

Also I have to wonder WHY facial hair was banned in the first place? If it doesn't hinder performance, why? If this is some old timey rule from another era when they wanted everyone to look "proper" then just toss it out all together.

Originally posted by Surtur
Since you were in, do you think this move will piss off the non-muslim soldiers who can't grow facial hair?

No way.

Originally posted by Lestov16
IMO, if Muslims are allowed to grow beards, all soldiers should be allowed to. Granting special privilege to Muslims, especially in the military and at this time where the main combatants of the military claim to be Muslims, not only seems to be begging to incite further resentment between Islam and America, but also allows physical markers for Muslims in the military to be targeted for discrimination. Well intentioned, but ultimately stupid.

Very well said.

Originally posted by Spawningpool
http://tribune.com.pk/story/891879/new-us-military-guidelines-pave-way-for-turbans-and-beards/
Some say turbans shouldn't?

Originally posted by Surtur
But why should a concession be made in this case? Especially when there might be non muslims who want to grow a beard or facial hair, but they can't.

Why is having a beard that important to these people? Plus, if they want to join the army they should be willing to follow the rules everyone else follows. They aren't special, but apparently they ARE special.

Because it's a religious one and if other religious concessions have been made why not this? Christians are allowed to wear crosses, Jews are allowed to wear the Star of David etc.

The why is not important when dealing with religion. If a beard is holy or what have you, so be it. It's not for others to judge.

I really see no reason to deny any religious concession, as long as it doesn't interfere with equipment used or performing duty. eg If having a three foot beard means the serviceman can't properly use a environmental mask, then sure, no beards allowed in that scenario.

Originally posted by Robtard
Because it's a religious one and if other religious concessions have been made why not this? Christians are allowed to wear crosses, Jews are allowed to wear the Star of David etc.

The why is not important when dealing with religion. If a beard is holy or what have you, so be it. It's not for others to judge.

I really see no reason to deny any religious concession, as long as it doesn't interfere with equipment used or performing duty. eg If having a three foot beard means the serviceman can't properly use a environmental mask, then sure, no beards allowed in that scenario.

Wearing a cross is a far cry from facial hair. If the army has legit reasons for it, then WHY concede to one group. If they don't have legit reasons then why not throw it out all together? But if they no longer have no legit reasons for it one would think they'd just allow everyone to do it.

If they allow them to grow beards, everyone should be allowed to do so. Let them wear whatever their equivalent of a cross or star of david is, but they don't need facial hair. Again: why are they joining the army if they are going to whine about the rules?

You also talk about concessions being made for others to wear crosses and stars. Were Jews ever banned from wearing stars of david? Or Christians banned from wearing a cross? Do they have to go see a committee or undergo a "review" to wear these?

It'd surprise me if crosses were banned considering the hard on for religion the government has. I'm sure muslims have a religious symbol they can wear. Boom, problem fixed. The only concessions made for the other religions were the ability to wear your religious symbol. I see no reason to not do the same here. Fair is fair, they can wear their little star and crescent or whatever the hell the symbols are.

Unless..is a beard the main symbol for Muslim religion?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Not that I have an issue with this, but why is it important? It's a uniform that hides all religious values, I don't see why it's important to modify it to show what God you favor. But I digress.

It's obviously a ploy by that black muslim Obama to try and get more muslims in the army until he phases out whites. Next thing you know it'll be an army of muslims marching towards your cities raping your men and killing your women, but it won't be an invasion, no. They'll call it martial law and Obama will be behind it all. Wake up people!

You were almost convincing...but you used 'people' instead of 'sheeple' and now we know you were being facetious all along

Originally posted by Surtur
Wearing a cross is a far cry from facial hair. If the army has legit reasons for it, then WHY concede to one group. If they don't have legit reasons then why not throw it out all together? But if they no longer have no legit reasons for it one would think they'd just allow everyone to do it.

If they allow them to grow beards, everyone should be allowed to do so. Let them wear whatever their equivalent of a cross or star of david is, but they don't need facial hair. Again: why are they joining the army if they are going to whine about the rules?

You also talk about concessions being made for others to wear crosses and stars. Were Jews ever banned from wearing stars of david? Or Christians banned from wearing a cross? Do they have to go see a committee or undergo a "review" to wear these?

It'd surprise me if crosses were banned considering the hard on for religion the government has.

Not really, they're both religious based in these cases. Wearing a beard is religious to a Sheik, just as wearing a cross is to a Christian.

Again, I personally don't have a problem with everyone being allowed to have facial hair in the military, as long as it doesn't interfere with service. But in this case, the military is looking it as a concession for religious reasons, as they've allowed other religions there's.

Not sure. But crosses and SoD are allowed, were other jewelry isn't, so a religious concession was made for them apparently. eg A Christian can wear a cross on a chain, but some baller can't wear a gold chain with a pimp medallion.

So why not let them wear a chain with a star and crescent on it and be done with it?

I get the concessions for other groups, but those concessions were "you can wear jewelry with a symbol of your religion on it". Concessions made to Muslims should be similar.

I still don't even get why facial hair is banned in the first place.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not really, they're both religious based in these cases. Wearing a beard is religious to a Sheik, just as wearing a cross is to a Christian.

Again, I personally don't have a problem with everyone being allowed to have facial hair in the military, as long as it doesn't interfere with service. But in this case, the military is looking it as a concession for religious reasons, as they've allowed other religions there's.

Not sure. But crosses and SoD are allowed, were other jewelry isn't, so a religious concession was made for them apparently. eg A Christian can wear a cross on a chain, but some baller can't wear a gold chain with a pimp medallion.

But can I wear my pastafarian colander? If it becomes bullet proof.

Also aren't there religions where a big part of it is smoking weed?

Originally posted by Surtur
Also aren't there religions where a big part of it is smoking weed?

Rastafarians use weed for religious purposes, but not to the extent that some dirty hippies imply.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But can I wear my pastafarian colander? If it becomes bullet proof.

Would probably interfere with other military equipment.

Originally posted by Surtur
Also aren't there religions where a big part of it is smoking weed?

Yes. But a case could be made where being high on THC would adversely affect one's ability to perform their duty.

Originally posted by Robtard
Would probably interfere with other military equipment.

Never.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes. But a case could be made where being high on THC would adversely affect one's ability to perform their duty.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes. But a case could be made where being high on THC would adversely affect one's ability to perform their duty.

But then I would hope there was never any legit reason ti disallow facial hair then.