Lumiya vs Talzin

Started by NewGuy012 pages

Bested a Palpatine that arguably hasn't handled a lightsaber in decades, with help, and is consistently challenged by lesser duelists that Palps would wipe the floor with, yes. 👆

Let's also not forget that when Luke challenged Palpatine alone, he fared rather poorly.

Absolutely no evidence for that. The audio drama makes it clear Leia doesn't join with Luke until after the duel. And the duel itself is so intense and quick that Leia could barely perceive it.

And of course he lost on Byss. As Palpatine says, "Did you really think you could conquer me by coming here o Byss, to the very heart of the dark side?"

Regardless of Leia not starting the harmony until after the duel, the context and dialogue makes it blatantly obvious that Luke is benefiting from her's and Anakin's presence. Of course Leia couldn't perceive the duel, she's a barely trained Force user.

Looking at the panels, Palps never said anything of the sort. Even if he had, it wouldn't make any sense considering that we're dealing with a fallen, dark Luke. Hell, the entire purpose of the battle was for Luke to realize he couldn't beat Palpatine by fighting fire with fire, tbh.

Of course? Very few lightsaber duels are ever described at such a pace. And what hints at Luke benefiting from their presence? She helped him free himself from the dark side but nothing hints at her helping him in anyway in the duel, the audio drama makes this clear.

He says it in the audio drama. And Palpatine's mastery of the dark side far outstrips Luke's. Plus, at that time, Luke hasn't submitted to the dark side yet.

Nexuses don't pick favorites, and Palpatine also said that Luke was trying to defeat him with the dark side powers that he had given him.

Considering what Palpatine says I'd say otherwise. DS nexuses after all boost dark siders and Luke at the time was only part way using the DS.

Part way using the DS? So are you implying he was "part way" using the light too? I'm not under the impression that Luke was going Revan on us. On Byss the Dark Side is at it's strongest, and they were both using the Dark Side--pretty fair playing field. Fact of the matter is that Palpatine is just better at it, and for some reason that seems to delegitimize the victory for you.

Wasn't he in a weakened clone body at the time?

Not sure if it was specifically weakened amongst it's peers, but it's implied in RoDV that Sidious stopped using/practicing with his lightsaber after RotS. 👆

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not sure if it was specifically weakened amongst it's peers, but it's implied in RoDV that Sidious stopped using/practicing with his lightsaber after RotS. 👆

He does draw it briefly to blitz a party of nobodies, but he is out of practice. Then again, his last duel before the one against Maul and Savage was what, before TPM? That's well over a decade, yet his skill didn't deteriorate.

He also used his saber to kill hordes of Lyleks in canon.

He likely never lost his dueling ability.

You think he wasn't keeping up his skills in that time, though? It was only after he defeated the Jedi Order that keeping up his lightsaber skills lost purpose, since he admittedly only needed them because he wanted to beat the Jedi at their own game.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Part way using the DS? So are you implying he was "part way" using the light too? I'm not under the impression that Luke was going Revan on us. On Byss the Dark Side is at it's strongest, and they were both using the Dark Side--pretty fair playing field. Fact of the matter is that Palpatine is just better at it, and for some reason that seems to delegitimize the victory for you.

Da fuq? I straight up said Palpatine's mastery of the DS is greater than Luke's. And yes, he was using it "part way". He hadn't fully submitted to it yet. Doesn't mean he was pulling a Revan or anything though.

It doesn't matter. A dark side nexus is a place or thing where the dark side is unusually strong; fully corrupted or not Luke was using the dark side, not the light, nor little of both, to fight Palpatine on Byss--he'd be receiving the same locational benefits Palpatine was. He lost because he can't beat Palpatine at his game, not because the battle was unfair.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You think he wasn't keeping up his skills in that time, though? It was only after he defeated the Jedi Order that keeping up his lightsaber skills lost purpose, since he admittedly only needed them because he wanted to beat the Jedi at their own game.

Well, I doubt he had time to practice between rituals (The Ultimate Visual Guide) and Senatorial issues. And he definitely didn't engage anybody in a duel.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It doesn't matter. A dark side nexus is a place or thing where the dark side is unusually strong; fully corrupted or not Luke was using the dark side, not the light, nor little of both, to fight Palpatine on Byss--he'd be receiving the same locational benefits Palpatine was. He lost because he can't beat Palpatine at his game, not because the battle was unfair.

It was unfair. Palpatine pretty much says as much.