Originally posted by Galan007
Vegetto never destroyed a moon, but I'm still pretty confident he was beyond Roshi.
Because he defeated characters who way down the line prove to be superior to Roshi. We're talking about two characters from two different lines of canon.
Can SSJ4 Gogeta destroy the sun and destroy it casually? Can he beat someone that can? Can he survive the subsequent black hole like Whis/Beerus apparently did? Remember SSJ4 Goku had to shoot Baby into the sun as a means of making sure all of him was gone so he clearly believed the sun was more sufficient than his own powers.
Originally posted by juggerman
Feats aren't the end all in DB. As Galan pointed out Roshi busted a moon while most other characters didn't do anything close to that.
Sun busting is a little different because it is magnitudes bigger than the other feats and the 2 strongest heroes, Goku and Vegeta, are amazed at a very casual blast from Beerus and wonder if he can create stars. Gogeta has no such moments. His feats, as they were, were being stronger than the guy that was stronger than SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Because he defeated characters who way down the line prove to be superior to Roshi. We're talking about two characters from two different lines of canon.Can SSJ4 Gogeta destroy the sun and destroy it casually? Can he beat someone that can? Can he survive the subsequent black hole like Whis/Beerus apparently did? Remember SSJ4 Goku had to shoot Baby into the sun as a means of making sure all of him was gone so he clearly believed the sun was more sufficient than his own powers.
Sun busting is a little different because it is magnitudes bigger than the other feats and the 2 strongest heroes, Goku and Vegeta, are amazed at a very casual blast from Beerus and wonder if he can create stars. Gogeta has no such moments. His feats, as they were, were being stronger than the guy that was stronger than SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta.
Omega Shenron was a universe buster which would be just a tad bit bigger than a single sun. DB is mostly implied power and power scaling. For example: Nappa was several magnitudes stronger than Roshi and all Nappa was able to bust was a city and one arm based solely on feats. Just trying to use feats here is very very faulty logic.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
I'm not sure why he is a universe buster. The....*sigh*
...spread of NEGATIVE ENERGY seemed like a passive effect that took a good amount of time to work.
I honestly don't remeber how it worked exactly but let's look at someone else. Cell claimed he could destroy a Solar System with a single attack(granted that attack wasn't casual) and this was accepted as factual. Solar system>>>> single sun and Cell was ass cheek compared to GT base Kid Goku
The destruction of a single sun will destroy the solar system so solar system busting requires the former(which is what Cell claimed he could do).
But a claim is not the same as a feat. And the feat here isn't just that Beerus blew up two suns casually. It's that he, by Occam's Razor, survived what happens after blowing up the sun. Namely a super nova and a black hole. Omega Shenron, the closest point of comparison to SSJ4 Gogeta, was in life threatening danger from heat generated by a character as strong as SSJ4 Goku(again, more or less). SSJ4 Goku, I will say again, needed to use the sun to put Baby down for good.
Cell's ability to destroy the solar system with his final Kamehameha was confirmed in an official bio which described the 'Grades' of Super Saiyan...
Translation:
Super Saiyan Grade Five (Super Saiyan 2)
"An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"
...So his statement was a lot more than just an empty boast.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
The destruction of a single sun will destroy the solar system so solar system busting requires the former(which is what Cell claimed he could do).But a claim is not the same as a feat. And the feat here isn't just that Beerus blew up two suns casually. It's that he, by Occam's Razor, survived what happens after blowing up the sun. Namely a super nova and a black hole. Omega Shenron, the closest point of comparison to SSJ4 Gogeta, was in life threatening danger from heat generated by a character as strong as SSJ4 Goku(again, more or less). SSJ4 Goku, I will say again, needed to use the sun to put Baby down for good.
The sun's heat isn't really relevent here tho. Just because the sun can kill characters doesn't mean those character can't still destroy a sun. Sun busting isn't a feat above GT since Cell could do so too. And GT Kid Goku toyed with Cell like he was just an inconvenience. SSJ4 Goku would literally be hundreds of times more powerful than a solar system buster and he was still well below Shenron and Gogeta.
Also: What Galan said