Vitiate runs a gauntlet

Started by S_W_LeGenD6 pages
S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Trocity
So there is no quote in existence for Vitiate that elevates him Beyond Power?

Thanks. I accept your concession.


This isn't a contest of quotes and hyperboles. However, to satisfy your curiosity, Vitiate is stated to be all-powerful in a source:

Under the guidance of the Emperor—the immortal and all-powerful savior who still reigned over them even after a thousand years—they abandoned the hedonistic lifestyles of their barbaric ancestors.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

And if the aforementioned revelation is not good enough, then:

"The Emperor is the dark side incarnate. You wouldn't stand a chance." (Emperor's Wrath)

More importantly, Palpatine is not Beyond Power. Dismissed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The fact that it should logically be effective proves that it is.

Those powers are effective against many threats, not denying this. But will they be effective against Vitiate? This is the question that may or may not be officially addressed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You can fall back on ambiguity to support your claim Vitiate clears.

The only known (official) measure taken to tackle the menace of Vitiate is this:

Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor's presence.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

Sith Seer seems to be a specialized class. Never heard of this class before.

Not sure about the options considered by the Jedi Order yet.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Now your just baselessly speculating, unless of course you have prove this.

It is an assumption much like yours.

You don't think that the Jedi Order during the times of Great Galactic War would have knowledge of the referred powers? They were well-known powers in earlier eras FYI.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Best reveal it now before you lose what little credibility you have left.

Who gets to decide my credibility? Some fans? 🙄

Lets not delve into mud-slinging.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He can channel the power of spirits i.e. drain them.

And? What is the outcome? Force Drain powers do not destroy spirits. Revan drained the spirit of Meetra Surik to replenish his energy whenever he felt the need to. And guess what? Surik's spirit remained there.

Vitiate can also drain spirits by the way, actually have. More importantly, he have demonstrated superior command of Force Drain powers then Palpatine.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
If Vitiate's power is immeasurable i.e. limitless, then why hasn't he consumed the galaxy yet?

I don't know. Only BioWare can address this question at the moment.

I was honestly expecting chaos in the galaxy after the apocalypse on planet Ziost. But Eternal Empire somehow barged in.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And how is it his pawns were stopped by the protags?

Monoliths cannot be killed or so it is claimed.

ILS Restricted

"And if the aforementioned revelation is not good enough, then:

"The Emperor is the dark side incarnate. You wouldn't stand a chance." (Emperor's Wrath)

More importantly, Palpatine is not Beyond Power. Dismissed. "

I see Legend is still using TOR character statements as canon while dismissing the same type of evidence from other eras. There really is no excuse doing it twice.

Also, please don't hit me with "EW knew the Emperor very well so such claims hold weight" - EW is incapable of understanding what "beyond power" or "all powerful" actually is.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Luke could probably also Mind Walk to destroy Vitiate's spirit if needed.

Vitiate appears to be a formless entity, rather then a proper spirit. He is not described as a spirit in the lore.

Check these descriptions:

The man now called Vitiate by those who once served him was not strong enough to usurp all life on Yavin 4 after his reawakening. However, he did gain power enough to flee the jungle moon and survive. Now that he has found in Ziost a suitable target to replenish himself--now that he appears to grow more powerful by the hour--what now? When will his unforgiving depletion of Ziost end? And when it does end, what fate will befall the rest of the galaxy?

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

&

In another time, it might have been cause for celebration. It might have emboldened the Empire, breathing new life into their efforts to crush the Republic. But with the Sith Emperor's apparent reawakening comes the common knowledge that he is no longer interested in ruling over the galaxy. Instead, he seeks to consume it. The Empire's highest ranking officers and dignitaries are now in a state of heightened alert, and the Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor's presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

Also, he may not give Luke Skywalker the time needed to perform a Mind Walk.

Originally posted by ILS
I see Legend is still using TOR character statements as canon while dismissing the same type of evidence from other eras. There really is no excuse doing it twice.

I posted that statement in response to a silly contest of quotes started by another member. You didn't notice it?

Originally posted by ILS
Also, please don't hit me with "EW knew the Emperor very well so such claims hold weight" - EW is incapable of understanding what "beyond power" or "all powerful" actually is.

And why would an Emperor's Wrath not understand the meaning of these statements? Vitiate was perceived as a god in the Empire.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

Hm Legend, do you think The Daughter is capable of defeating Ziost!Vitiate?

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hm Legend, do you think The Daughter is capable of defeating Ziost!Vitiate?

Unless she finds a way to get a fix on his presence, I am not sure how she would even fight him.

Did The Ones get a fix on Qui-Gon Jinn's spirit when he visited Mortis?

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

They never mentioned Jinn. mmm Also, why make a thread if you...

1.) Already decided for all members Vitiate cannot be harmed by anyone's Force powers.
2.) Already decided no being can get a fix location on the Emperor - not even the Ones can.
3.) Consider it trolling if members say Yoda, Darth Sidious, or Luke Skywalker can beat Vitiate.

It's obvious your intentions is a victory for Vitiate. So, why make the topic if you refuse others thoughts?

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They never mentioned Jinn. mmm Also, why make a thread if you...

1.) Already decided for all members Vitiate cannot be harmed by anyone's Force powers.
2.) Already decided no being can get a fix location on the Emperor - not even the Ones can.
3.) Consider it trolling if members say Yoda, Darth Sidious, or Luke Skywalker can beat Vitiate.

It's obvious your intentions is a victory for Vitiate. So, why make the topic if you refuse others thoughts?


My intended message is that it is premature to rank characters in the manner of 1, 2, 3 and so on. Some characters can have characteristics that make them virtually impossible to handle by conventional methods and/or even unsuitable for versus scenarios. While members are free to rank characters, they should keep the aforementioned complexities and ground realities in mind.

If Luke Skywalker is assumed to be no. 1, their should be some solid reasoning behind it. The typical son of Anakin Skywalker and his exploits related arguments aren't sufficient. Their are beings in the Star Wars who may utterly trash Luke in clash should it come down to that (or) the Jedi in question might find it impossible to tackle them. And formless Vitiate is likely among such beings.

Darth Marr's frustration sums it up really well:

This is most distressing. Vitiate may be more powerful then any of us assumed. And as he does not appear to have any manner of physical form, he cannot be restrained or destroyed by conventional means.

Taken from (Darth Marr's written message, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor)

Not just the aforementioned revelation, but both the Jedi and Sith ran out of options about how to stop Vitiate on planet Ziost and watched its destruction from afar. This plot carries a message; that Vitiate isn't your typical villain who can be stopped with a lightsaber or some Force power. That the Jedi and Sith have to do better then this..

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

The same can be said about really any Force Spirit, tbh. Darth Nox couldn't kill Kallig's spirit, etc etc. The fact Vitiate's spirit can't be harmed in that method isn't anything new - and not an indication of power.
I also wouldn't consider rare Force powers as "conventional methods," such as Force Light or Wall of Light. No where does it say Vitiate cannot be harmed by the Force as a spirit, that's just your silly speculation.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The same can be said about really any Force Spirit, tbh. Darth Nox could't kill Kallig's spirit, etc etc. The fact Vitiate's spirit can't be harmed in that method isn't anything new - and not an indication of power.
I also wouldn't consider rare Force powers as "conventional methods," such as Force Light or Wall of Light. No where does it say Vitiate cannot be harmed by the Force as a spirit, that's just your silly speculation.

Sith have created artifacts that can be used to banish or destroy Sith spirits. Exar Kun's amulet is an example. Though, whether these artifacts work on Vitiate or not, is open to debate. The Dark Council assembled a contingent of powerful (specialized) Sith to get a fix on Emperor's presence. What became of them or was the objective achieved, remains to be seen.

BioWare writers are not clueless when it comes to matters of the Star Wars. They understand lot of stuff that they work upon. For example, they demonstrated the mysteries and complexities of Yavin IV in a fantastic manner. I was not even aware of some stuff about Yavin IV before Rise of the Emperor expansion came out. They would definitely have knowledge of all Force powers and techniques introduced in the lore.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

So Vitiate can be affected by stuff then, such as amulets. I thought Force powers couldn't affect him though?

😉

I'm sure other powers will work too then, like Wall of Light / Force Light, which is also used to vanquish spirits.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So Vitiate can be affected by stuff then, such as amulets? I thought Force powers couldn't affect him though.

😉

I'm sure other powers will work too then, like Wall of Light / Force Light, which is also used to vanquish spirits.


These are just assumptions so far. Nothing concrete.

Unlike a typical spirit, Vitiate is stupendously powerful and is able to manipulate the Force and perform actions that put any spirit to shame.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

No. Both the Wall of Light and Sith amulets can destroy spirits.
Therefore, they can destroy Vitiate. 👆

Vitiate being extremely powerful doesn't make him immune to attacks, lol.
Many spirits can manipulate the Force, such as Revan and Kallig (and others).

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No. Both the Wall of Light and Sith amulets can destroy spirits.
Therefore, they can destroy Vitiate. 👆

Vitiate being extremely powerful doesn't make him immune to attacks, lol.
Many spirits can manipulate the Force, such as Revan and Kallig (and others).


Vitiate isn't a typical spirit.

If it was so easy to stop him, then the Sith would have managed to do so on planet Ziost.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

I know, you just said that above. Luke Skywalker too is "stupendously powerful", and being able to manipulate the Force as a spirit is not anything special.

EDIT: Ah, you edited your post. Well, the above is referring to your pre-deleted post.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I know, you just said that above. Luke Skywalker too is "stupendously powerful", and being able to manipulate the Force as a spirit is not anything special.

EDIT: Ah, you edited your post. Well, the above is referring to your pre-deleted post.


The Empire doesn't have stortage of Sith Artifacts and the Jedi are acquainted with powers such as Wall of Light. All options were on the table, but nothing was sufficient to stop Vitiate on planet Ziost. Both the Jedi and Sith helplessly watched destruction of Ziost from afar.

Luke Skywalker doesn't have characteristics of Vitiate.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

The highest ranking Sith on Ziost was Lana and the PC. I don't recall any other Sith even being there, hence why no one tried to exploit the artifacts.

I do not believe the Jedi even have the Tedryn Holocron in their possession. Even so, the highest ranking Jedi on Ziost was the PC (assuming a Jedi went).

Even with these powers, remember they probably need to be more powerful than Vitiate for it work, hence why if they did have it, trying it would be pointless.

Luckily, Luke Skywalker is a Force-user on Vitiate's playing field. 👆

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The highest ranking Sith on Ziost was Lana and the PC. I don't recall any other Sith even being there, hence why no one tried to exploit the artifacts.

We get to explore a limited part of the planet so it is unclear how many Sith were stationed there and what were their ranks.

Do keep in mind this:

Today, Ziost remains an important commercial, political and population center of the Empire--this in spite of its shift from a warm climate with dense forests to a bitterly cold tundra.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

It is possible that Darth Marr had dispatched other contingents to planet Ziost and eventually reached the conclusion that nothing is working. Therefore, his letter to the Sith protagonist.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I do not believe the Jedi even have the Tedryn Holocron in their possession. Even so, the highest ranking Jedi on Ziost was the PC (assuming a Jedi went).

Why not? The Jedi Order was busy investigating mysteries of the past and uncovering ancient artifacts. Many Jedi were active on these missions including Barsen'thor III and Gnost Dural.

There were some high ranking Jedi on planet Ziost. Master Surro was among them. The Republic even went as far as to invade planet Ziost while Vitiate was there.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Even with these powers, remember they probably need to be more powerful than Vitiate for it work, hence why if they did have it, trying it would be pointless.

Luckily, Luke Skywalker is a Force-user on Vitiate's playing field. 👆


The Jedi and Sith can perform actions jointly or with their combined might, if they feel the need to do something big or are up against a significant threat. On Ziost, they had been coordinating even with the intelligence agencies.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

So you have no proof any other Sith Lords, let alone high-ranking ones, were on Ziost? Check.
You also failed to show proof that the Jedi have the Tedryn Holocron in their possession. Check.

Given they don't have these powers in their possession, the fact Vitiate wasn't killed shouldn't be a surprise.
Luke's Wall of Light / Force Light will be a power that can work against Vitiate. It just depends on who is more powerful.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So you have no proof any other Sith Lords, let alone high-ranking ones, were on Ziost? Check.
You also failed to show proof that the Jedi have the Tedryn Holocron in their possession. Check.

You don't have proof that a Sith amulet can stop Vitiate. Check.
You don't have proof that Wall of Light can stop Vitiate. Check.

We can play this game for like ever, until new content comes. However, if you are so eager to promote your assertions then consult BioWare authors - who are actively working on developing SWTOR content - and let me know.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Given they don't have these powers in their possession, the fact Vitiate wasn't killed shouldn't be a surprise.
Luke's Wall of Light / Force Light will be a power that can work against Vitiate. It just depends on who is more powerful.

And why would the Jedi not have these powers in their possession? These powers were developed in earlier times and should be common knowledge.

FYI, Jedi historians during the times of Great Galactic War are absolutely aware of Wall of Light and earlier events:

Grieving for his brother and severed from the Force, the fallen Jedi Ulic Qel-Droma finally returned to the light. He joined the Republic forces and led them to Yavin Four, stronghold of the Dark Lord Exar Kun. The Republic fleet bombarded the moon’s surface, leveling Exar Kun’s temples and setting the jungles aflame. But Exar Kun had sensed the approach of the Republic forces and laid preparations. Summoning his loyal Massassi warriors, he performed a dreadful ritual that drained them of their life essence. Exar Kun became a spirit of pure darkness. The Jedi in the fleet sensed Exar Kun’s actions. Led by Nomi, they created a “wall of light” through the Force. Exar Kun found himself trapped within the temples of Yavin Four for eternity, screaming with rage and helpless to escape.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

I accept your concession in advance.

Emperordmb LSDMB

Luke is more powerful than any of those Jedi is what I think Ant is getting at.